Shop built rolling block action

[dverna]

I am humbled by what some here are capable of doing...or willing to try.

Good luck on your project.

IIRC a few years ago a member here (Ballistics in Scotland) was working on building a Martini action. Don’t know if he ever completed it, but at least he tried.

Pretty impressive work to build you4 own action.

[redneck1]

Well we can identify one mistake your already making .. you can't compare mass production to one off builds .

And while you are correct you didn't see mills in 1875 or even 1975 production lines .n. but what you did see was a whole bunch of machines purpose built for each single operation .

I say that because single minded thinking will get you nowhere , if you want to build without a mill your gonna need to learn how to think outside the box

[Hannibal]

Well we can identify one mistake your already making .. you can't compare mass production to one off builds .

And while you are correct you didn't see mills in 1875 or even 1975 production lines .n. but what you did see was a whole bunch of machines purpose built for each single operation .

I say that because single minded thinking will get you nowhere , if you want to build without a mill your gonna need to learn how to think outside the box

Yep, I understand that. I also understand it won't be easy or the internet would be filled with examples. If it weren't a challenge then what would be the point?

I can find plenty of reasons to give up. I thought perhaps someone had gone here before and might have some first hand knowledge to share. If not I'll figure it out myself. It'll take longer but I'll learn more along the way.

[elmacgyver0]

Not a rolling block, but a little homemade rimfire rifle in 17HMR I made a few years ago.
A lot of hacksawing, filing, welding, carving and sanding.
Building guns can be fun, butAttachment 305566 it is also a lot of work.

[redneck1]

Ummm so you missed my point a little , easy enough to do .
In more simplified format , take stock on tools and skills you have and decide on what to build using that information instead of setting yourself up for failure by deciding on a build that's beyond your means .

The dehaas chicopee is a good starting point , a lathe , welder and a drill press will get you there with a bit of hard work .

[Hannibal]

Been there, done that. Moving on to something else. And your point about mass produced parts is a good one. Only thing is with massed produced parts there are one or two guys smart enough to set up one machine/process. After that a worker with some training and experience can take over. With a one-off you do it all yourself. I don't know if I'm up to it or not because I've not finished it yet. Time will tell.

[Hannibal]

That looks like a De Haas design. Am I at least close? I completed a Chicopee in .22 Hornet. I used a Green Mountain blank and put a step profile on it with an octagon on the chamber end. Used Osage orange for the stock. Had a bit of trouble with the location for the trigger pin and the locking bar for the hammer. Got the parts to work without re-making anything but the trigger.

I looked at his Vault Lock design but just don't care for the looks of it.

There was a guy who was working on a Darcy action on another forum that I ran across a few years ago. That forum is defunct now I believe so I don't know if he finished it or not. Wish I could find that fellow, seemed like he really knew his stuff.

[elmacgyver0]

The two most important tools are determination and patients.
You can accomplish a lot with simple tools.

[John Taylor]

Incidentally,when the Spanish were testing the rolling block ,they found it impossible to blow one up.....one load tried was 5 bullets and 700gr of powder.(black ,of course)

Sounds like the test Winchester did on the 1876. First they took the toggle link off one side and it fired OK, then they started adding bullets and powder till the case ruptured and blew the side covers off. I know what that's like because it happened to me with some old brass that let go.

[John Taylor]

The phoenix rifle would probably be the easiest build but you probably would need a mill. Remington sued Whitworth over the rolling block so Whitworth came out with the Phoenix. The trigger guard off a phoenix looks like it will fit the Remington.

[M-Tecs]

That looks like a De Haas design. Am I at least close? I completed a Chicopee in .22 Hornet. I used a Green Mountain blank and put a step profile on it with an octagon on the chamber end. Used Osage orange for the stock. Had a bit of trouble with the location for the trigger pin and the locking bar for the hammer. Got the parts to work without re-making anything but the trigger.

I looked at his Vault Lock design but just don't care for the looks of it.

There was a guy who was working on a Darcy action on another forum that I ran across a few years ago. That forum is defunct now I believe so I don't know if he finished it or not. Wish I could find that fellow, seemed like he really knew his stuff.

This one https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...y-Rifle-Action ?

[Hannibal]

Incidentally,when the Spanish were testing the rolling block ,they found it impossible to blow one up.....one load tried was 5 bullets and 700gr of powder.(black ,of course)

How is it even possible to get 700 grains in one unless you're dumping it in from the muzzle?

[Hannibal]

This one https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...y-Rifle-Action ?

It appears that fellow still logs on occasionally so I sent him a PM. That might be the Darcy action I was thinking of. I'd like to pick your brain a bit as well tomorrow if you don't mind? Getting past my bedtime and I'm still a working stiff.

[M-Tecs]

It appears that fellow still logs on occasionally so I sent him a PM. That might be the Darcy action I was thinking of. I'd like to pick your brain a bit as well tomorrow if you don't mind? Getting past my bedtime and I'm still a working stiff.

No problem. I will PM you my email and phone number. I prefer emails verse PMs

[Bent Ramrod]

The Lincoln milling machine became a fixture in production shops in the mid-1850s after Pratt added a screw feed to replace the rack-and-pinion feed on the original 1840 design. This allowed finer cuts, closer tolerances and better finishes on the parts. The arms factories had them in place in plenty of time to support the Civil War, and it is my understanding that a few of them were still in use at the Winchester plant, and sent to the boneyard in the notorious change to modern manufacturing methods in 1964.

The “little old gunmaker,” with his hand tools at the bench, was pretty much relegated to final fitting and finishing by the mid-1800s. But they were still the go-to for experimental designs, prototypes and one-offs. The Browning Bros. made up the patent model of the Single Shot with forge, chisels and files, but when they went into production, they had a couple of lathes and a milling machine in their shop. They also sent patterns to a forging shop and ordered the rough forgings from them. And when they sold the design to Winchester, they reportedly were pretty glad to be out of manufacturing.

The ASSRA Archivist has blueprints for many of the old single shot actions for a nominal fee. You might see if they have Rolling Block drawings so you could study the parts.

Rodney Storie sells casting sets for the old single-shot actions. This might be a better way to go than making everything from the solid. The sets need drilling, reaming and fit-and-finish work that could conceivably be done by an expert filer. Pins and screws need to be made, but that is what a lathe is for.

[Hannibal]

The Lincoln milling machine became a fixture in production shops in the mid-1850s after Pratt added a screw feed to replace the rack-and-pinion feed on the original 1840 design. This allowed finer cuts, closer tolerances and better finishes on the parts. The arms factories had them in place in plenty of time to support the Civil War, and it is my understanding that a few of them were still in use at the Winchester plant, and sent to the boneyard in the notorious change to modern manufacturing methods in 1964.

The “little old gunmaker,” with his hand tools at the bench, was pretty much relegated to final fitting and finishing by the mid-1800s. But they were still the go-to for experimental designs, prototypes and one-offs. The Browning Bros. made up the patent model of the Single Shot with forge, chisels and files, but when they went into production, they had a couple of lathes and a milling machine in their shop. They also sent patterns to a forging shop and ordered the rough forgings from them. And when they sold the design to Winchester, they reportedly were pretty glad to be out of manufacturing.

The ASSRA Archivist has blueprints for many of the old single shot actions for a nominal fee. You might see if they have Rolling Block drawings so you could study the parts.

Rodney Storie sells casting sets for the old single-shot actions. This might be a better way to go than making everything from the solid. The sets need drilling, reaming and fit-and-finish work that could conceivably be done by an expert filer. Pins and screws need to be made, but that is what a lathe is for.

My thinking is to avoid a 'kit' if possible, but that may prove to be impractical if not impossible. I'm just beginning to research action designs so at this point I've no idea what direction this project will go. When I think of milling machines I think of very large castings weighing hundreds if not thousands of pounds. Such a machine is simply not practical to purchase and place in a home garage for rare use on occasional projects in my opinion. I've a bit of experience running a large mill and as I've stated, I don't think it's a practical option for the space I have and my very limited use. Once I've an idea of what seems appropriate and possible I may discover that there are other options available but I'm not counting on it.

[Hannibal]

Looking around a bit this morning and I may change my mind and go with a 50-70 cartridge rather than 45-70. This will help ensure that a modern high pressure round is never accidentally used in the rifle. As I stated earlier the goal is to hand build something simple, not see if I can push the limits of the cartridge.

[405grain]

Hannibal: I'm building a Chicopee centerfire in 22 K-Hornet. A couple of years ago I built a small rolling block action, and used a rotary table on a Bridgeport mill to machine the mating surfaces for the hammer and breech block. Overall the rolling block worked, but wasn't as good as I'd have liked it to be. With your tooling and experience I would suggest that you try building the Darcy action. This action would be more than strong enough for your needs. It looks a lot better than either of the vault locks. With the round breech block it's a lot easier to machine the receiver than other falling blocks. The Darcy action has already been built successfully for smokeless 45-70 loads, so you'll have no worries about the actions strength. The Darcy action could be built with a metal lathe, a drill press, and hand tools. Because the trigger group on the Darcy is a separate attachment, you can get creative with it if you like (a double set trigger would be a possibility). I plan on building a Darcy action in the future, but have other gun projects that I need to finish first. I think the Darcy falling block would be a good choice for your project.

[Hannibal]

Hannibal: I'm building a Chicopee centerfire in 22 K-Hornet. A couple of years ago I built a small rolling block action, and used a rotary table on a Bridgeport mill to machine the mating surfaces for the hammer and breech block. Overall the rolling block worked, but wasn't as good as I'd have liked it to be. With your tooling and experience I would suggest that you try building the Darcy action. This action would be more than strong enough for your needs. It looks a lot better than either of the vault locks. With the round breech block it's a lot easier to machine the receiver than other falling blocks. The Darcy action has already been built successfully for smokeless 45-70 loads, so you'll have no worries about the actions strength. The Darcy action could be built with a metal lathe, a drill press, and hand tools. Because the trigger group on the Darcy is a separate attachment, you can get creative with it if you like (a double set trigger would be a possibility). I plan on building a Darcy action in the future, but have other gun projects that I need to finish first. I think the Darcy falling block would be a good choice for your project.

I agree and I've actually been in contact with the designer of that action. Very nice and highly talented man to put it mildly. I'm planning to spend the next few days familiarizing myself with that action but it appears to be just what I'm looking for at a quick glance. Thanks for the suggestion and I hope your project comes together for you!

[lar45]

Many years ago I wanted to see if I could build a gun from scratch over Christmas break.
Now don't laugh too hard.
The following picture may be tough to look at.

It's ugly for sure, I could have cleaned it up to make it more presentable, but the exercise was to see if I could make a working functional gun in 2 weeks in the garage.
I made my own chamber reamer, 30x38spl, I called it the 30 Erin for my youngest son.







Action designs can be very simple like this one, or very complex.

Good luck on your project.