Shop built rolling block action

[Hannibal]

Some guys reload to shoot, some guys shoot to reload, and some guys just like to work on guns. I'm in the third camp.

So, having said that I've started gathering materials for a falling block rimfire project but I'm thinking down the road a bit to a centerfire rolling block action. The thinking is I really like the idea of taking a buck with a rifle I built, black powder I made and a bullet I cast. I've got the first and last detail covered so I'm looking at an action I can build at home.
My thoughts are to go with a black powder 45-70. Plenty of power and range for a whitetail but I'm not sure what action I want to use. I've gathered up some research material on rolling block action design from the mid to late 1800s so those are the designs I'm considering. There are a whole bunch of Sharps and Rem 1883 replicas out there but they're complex enough that I don't think that's a viable option for me and buying a replica isn't the point for me.
So. Anyone here been down this road who might have some experience and insight? Any simple actions you'd recommend and/or any to avoid?

Thanks for looking.

[BLAHUT]

I use a rolling block 45/70 for long range, 1000yds. Would love a falling block, Does not need to be so critical on overall length, has a camming action. A friend built a rolling block, care must be taken, can turn into an automatic ejector.

[Hannibal]

I use a rolling block 45/70 for long range, 1000yds. Would love a falling block, Does not need to be so critical on overall length, has a camming action. A friend built a rolling block, care must be taken, can turn into an automatic ejector.

Automatic ejector? As in breech failure? This is my primary concern and why I will be using low pressure BP loads exclusively. You just can't cram too much BP in a 45-70 case to have the kind of problems smokeless powder presents so that's why I'm going that route.

Plus all that smoke.

[Reg]

Making a action from scratch is something that is very doable but if you have never done such before do some research fist. Frank deHaas put out a number of good books on that exact subject. They will take a little looking to find but they are out there. Look for U tube videos, there are several. Also several of the home machinist sites have gone into this.
Rodney Storie ( Story ? ) is making forging kits again but I don’t know if he is doing the rolling block. He is online.
It’s a fun project. Go for it!!

[redneck1]

Depends on the type of build , a laminate build would be fine for a rimfire or low pressure pistol cartridge build like a .32 s&w .
But would be a bad idea for anything more then that .

Built from bar stock using heat treated 4140 or similar alloy and heat treating it you could build your own if you have the time and effort .

The dehaas actions already mentioned really are a good place to start if you've never scratch built your own action before .

[M-Tecs]

Some guys reload to shoot, some guys shoot to reload, and some guys just like to work on guns. I'm in the third camp.

So, having said that I've started gathering materials for a falling block rimfire project but I'm thinking down the road a bit to a centerfire rolling block action. The thinking is I really like the idea of taking a buck with a rifle I built, black powder I made and a bullet I cast. I've got the first and last detail covered so I'm looking at an action I can build at home.
My thoughts are to go with a black powder 45-70. Plenty of power and range for a whitetail but I'm not sure what action I want to use. I've gathered up some research material on rolling block action design from the mid to late 1800s so those are the designs I'm considering. There are a whole bunch of Sharps and Rem 1883 replicas out there but they're complex enough that I don't think that's a viable option for me and buying a replica isn't the point for me.
So. Anyone here been down this road who might have some experience and insight? Any simple actions you'd recommend and/or any to avoid?

Thanks for looking.

The only way for an RB to auto eject. is for the breech to failure. I like HiWalls so I am in the process of building a couple of actions from bars stock. It real depends on what you have for a shop and machining abilities?????

What is a Rem 1883?

https://www.midwayusa.com/larrys-sho...ling-block/258

Automatic ejector? As in breech failure? This is my primary concern and why I will be using low pressure BP loads exclusively. You just can't cram too much BP in a 45-70 case to have the kind of problems smokeless powder presents so that's why I'm going that route.

Plus all that smoke.

Selecting proper materials will not make the machining more difficult. As stated Frank DeHaas has a couple of very basic designs

https://www.bevfitchett.us/rifle-pla...duction-1.html

Fairly simple design here that will give you an idea what this will take. https://archive.org/details/Building...eller/mode/2up

Some options here https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...designs.17050/

[Hannibal]

The only way for an RB to auto eject. is for the breech to failure. I like HiWalls so I am in the process of building a couple of actions from bars stock. I real depends on what you have for a shop and machining abilities?

What is a Rem 1883?

https://www.midwayusa.com/larrys-sho...ling-block/258

Well, that's what I get for relying on memory these days. Winchester 1883.

I don't like side hammer designs simply because of the aesthetics but I may find that to be the only viable option. I don't have the room for a mill so that limits my opinions to a degree, but mills weren't widely available in 1850-1890 so I shouldn't think it's a must. Again, I'm looking at black powder cartridge options for multiple reasons. If I wanted to shoot at maximum velocity and beat myself to death I'd get a Ruger #1 in 45-70 and have at it. That's not what I'm interested in. To those who do I've no problem with that, it's just not where my interests lie.

[Bent Ramrod]

There are guys on the ASSRA site that have built actions from scratch. Can’t remember a rolling block specifically, but the falling blocks and other designs will at least allow you to see the equipment needed and what problems come up.

If you don’t have a milling machine or a lathe milling fixture, you’d better be good with a file and chisel.

[Hannibal]

Depends on the type of build , a laminate build would be fine for a rimfire or low pressure pistol cartridge build like a .32 s&w .
But would be a bad idea for anything more then that .

Built from bar stock using heat treated 4140 or similar alloy and heat treating it you could build your own if you have the time and effort .

The dehaas actions already mentioned really are a good place to start if you've never scratch built your own action before .

The only issue I have with the Vault Locks designed by De Haas is I just can't get past the appearance of them. Plenty of rolling block black powder designs out there, I'm just not deep enough into the research to decide if there's a simple design from the 1850-1890 range that can tolerate the breech pressure from a black powder 45-70 load to consider. Were the early failures due to barrel limitations of the day or were they from the limitations of the steel used in the actions or were the designs poor? I don't know so that's what I'm trying to determine.

[country gent]

I believe the 1883 would be the Rem Hepburn.

Lone Star converted some rollers to side lever operation, which is interesting.

[Hannibal]

There are guys on the ASSRA site that have built actions from scratch. Can’t remember a rolling block specifically, but the falling blocks and other designs will at least allow you to see the equipment needed and what problems come up.

If you don’t have a milling machine or a lathe milling fixture, you’d better be good with a file and chisel.

I don't know about chisels but I'm the baddest dude with a file you'll ever meet. That I can say with confidence.

[M-Tecs]

That would be an 1885 Winchester not 1883.

[john.k]

The original rolling block design had a fixed stud on the block act as an extractor......very simple.....however ,the later mods for effective extraction became considerably more complex,and difficult to make ........my last single shot was a replica Starr carbine.......I cheated a bit ,because I had an original lock ,which Dixie were selling at one time for $30.

[Hannibal]

That would be an 1885 Winchester not 1883.

Very well, obviously my memory isn't serving me well. Point is, I realize replicas are available and they're complicated enough the garage machinist will have difficulty at best if not finding it an impossible task.
I plan to color case harden whatever action I decide to use for appearance as well as function. It's not a skill I've mastered so there will be a learning curve there as well.

[john.k]

Incidentally,when the Spanish were testing the rolling block ,they found it impossible to blow one up.....one load tried was 5 bullets and 700gr of powder.(black ,of course)

[Hannibal]

Incidentally,when the Spanish were testing the rolling block ,they found it impossible to blow one up.....one load tried was 5 bullets and 700gr of powder.(black ,of course)

I've no Intention of testing one to the point of failure, I just want to build my own and not have to worry about putting an eye out. There are many, many discussions about breech pressure and I don't have the skill to sort wheat from chaff. I don't want to go overboard but I don't want to be part of a catastrophic failure, either.

[M-Tecs]

I hate to be a Debbie Downer but without at least a rudimentary mill or drill press and lathe this is going to be a challenge. Review the 44 pages here https://archive.org/details/Building...e/n43/mode/2up and determine what parts you can and can't build with a file?

[Hannibal]

I have a lathe and the skill to use it. Again, I find the idea that a mill is necessary to build an action designed and available between 1850-1890 to be questionable. Perhaps I'm ill-informed but where were mills available before the development of smokeless powder?

There may well be a level of skill required that's rarely seen today and a level of precision a available now that was unthinkable during that time frame. I don't know the answers to these questions. That's why I started this thread. If someone can point me to a reference or documentation that I've yet to find I'd be very greatful and appreciative. However speculation by any of us is simply that. Speculation.

[john.k]

The only person who could build one with a forge and file would be an old world 8year apprenticed gunmaker ..........i certainly would not even try.........but I would do it with a small lathe (not a toy) with a milling slide ,and a welder ........IMHO ,a lot of single shots are fairly easily made as two halves welded along the centeline .........for instance ,if I made a Ballard,I would make two halves and weld together.

[Hannibal]

The only person who could build one with a forge and file would be an old world 8year apprenticed gunmaker ..........i certainly would not even try.........but I would do it with a small lathe (not a toy) with a milling slide ,and a welder ........IMHO ,a lot of single shots are fairly easily made as two halves welded along the centeline .........for instance ,if I made a Ballard,I would make two halves and weld together.

A Ballard. Very good, I think I have a reference that shows such a design. I'll look into that tomorrow. Thank you for your insight and suggestion.
I've no experience with a forge so such designs aren't what I was considering. Probably should have made that clear earlier. Sorry for any confusion.