bad Groups in 45-70

[waksupi]

Vertical stringing, decrease powder, horizontal stringing, increase powder.

[Ramjet-SS]

Heat issue the barrel is walking so to speak. Check your fore arm screw. Take the forearm off do the same shooting resting the barrel on the sandbag the same. Difference ? Barrel and forearm related no difference? Maybe load related.

Had a savage one time ran all consecutive shoots high. Fore arm screw was to long putting upward pressure on the barrel. The fact you say this is consistent my suggestion as the barrel gets warmer the the shots are stringing. Try the above let’s see if there is any difference?

[wallacem]

Today I took it out with the same three loads to try again. Did not even clean the barrel since yesterday. First group in center, second group on right, third group on left which is the same load as yesterday that was terrible, is terrible today. Bottom line, bad load. I think I was starting each time before with this load, and it made it appear that it was another problem. Today I ran that load last and it still opened up. Will do some more with these two loads. Would like to tighten them up some. The barrel slugs at .458. I am shooting .460 bullets. Wallace

[Bird]

So, what was the bad load, and what was the better load?

[wallacem]

The bad group is 13 gr of Green Dot. The other two groups, 13 gr of Unique in middle and 35.3 gr of 3031 on right.

[Mr Peabody]

If you are starting with a cleaned bore, then there is no lube in front of the first fired bullet, and will get progressively better as each round is fired. Try shooting without cleaning it every time you put the gun away. That would prove or disprove the above. I think most people overclean barrels anyway, unless they are using black powder.
What does your barrel slug at?

My thoughts too, it's the lube

[longcruise]

I would try 5744 or Shooters World Buffalo.

[gumbo333]

I’d sure try some red dot, blue dot and 700x. If you keep your barrel clean make sure you shoot 2 shots before you take it hunting. You’ve received lots of good ideas. Might try starting with loads at 1000 fps or less and see what happens. I just use published data to get 1000 fps.

[Bird]

The bad group is 13 gr of Green Dot. The other two groups, 13 gr of Unique in middle and 35.3 gr of 3031 on right.

Forget the green dot load. try increasing the unique load another grain, and the 3031 upto 38gr in 1/2 grain increments. Groups may tighten up.
3031 is a bit slow of a powder. Depending on lube and bullet, 34gr of imr4198 would be better.
Your current unique load should be shooting better than what you are getting.
If your bullets are plain based lead, they should be good up to 1350fps, again depending on lube and bullet.

[Castaway]

One other thing not mentioned is powder position. A 45-70 case is large and the volume of 13 grains of Unique is small in comparison. Try leveling the powder by holding the cartridges horizontally and gently sliding them back and forth so the powder is evenly distributed.

[Midohhntr]

Try sizing to .459, my handi-rifle is a tack driver. When I first bought it at the time all i used was the Hornaday lever revolution with the 325 ftx. After handloading for a few years now, Hornaday brass is shorter, some cast bullets in standard size brass will not fully chamber, but will with Hornady brass. I also own a Marlin 1895 the chamber is slightly longer in it. Both like bullets sized to .459 and powder coat.

[Edward]

Try sizing to .459, my handi-rifle is a tack driver. When I first bought it at the time all i used was the Hornaday lever revolution with the 325 ftx. After handloading for a few years now, Hornaday brass is shorter, some cast bullets in standard size brass will not fully chamber, but will with Hornady brass. I also own a Marlin 1895 the chamber is slightly longer in it. Both like bullets sized to .459 and powder coat.

If you PC after sizing 459 you are most likely shooting 460 /Ed

[Midohhntr]

If you PC after sizing 459 you are most likely shooting 460 /Ed

I PC before sizing.. I should have clarified..

[gunseller]

Just a thought. Are you crimping the case to bullet when loading? It could be that it takes two shots to build up a little crude to hold the bullet a micro second so you get a consistent powder ignition.

[sloughfoot]

Hey guys, Please help solve this grouping problem with my NEF 45-70. See target. Shooting 405 gr cast sized .460, shoots great in my other guns. Shooting here at 50 yds. This load here is 13 gr Green Dot and with cold barrel, first shot very low. Second shot high, next four shots connected together. Does this every time, starting with cold bbl.

My 30-30 H&R topper does the same thing with powder coated and gas checked bullets

[Ramjet-SS]

My 30-30 H&R topper does the same thing with powder coated and gas checked bullets

Glass bed the forearm the issue will go away.

[Texas by God]

Another thing to try is to keep your hand between the forend and the front sandbag.
Like a natural rested field position. I shoot all two piece stocked rifles like that.
I dont think that I'm alone, either.

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