Adventure in reloading and rust on your reloading dies?

[archangel2003]

Ok, Since the first ammo rush when nothing but the odd 270, 450 Bushmaster, and 350 Legend ammo was available, I decided to invest in everything needed to reload every caliber I own, (except for 22lr and 22WMR) right down to the bullet molds, just in case they outlaw everything.
I purchased 2000 9mm cases and bullets, 500 of the 45 acp (no 45 cal bullets yet) and 1000 of the .223 cases and the basic 55 grain FMJ bullets.
I do have the LEE 55 grain mold, and the Arsenal 225-77 "Elvis" as well as the 225-61 "Elvis" still on order.
So far I have only cast #4 buckshot, #00 buckshot and the 7/8 oz slugs as I'm still looking into bullet alloys.
I have something like 50+ pounds left of pure lead after casting for the shotgun, 50+ pounds of Pewter, and about the same of linotype just to start with.
I decided to start prepping the batch of .223/5.56 removing the primer and full length sizing them.
I'm using the LEE Deluxe 4 die set made out of carbide, and supposedly they do not require lube.
Well, about 50 cases in, a case jammed in the die ripping off the rim.
I pulled the de-priming pin retaining nut and forced out the jammed case.
That one case was a military case and the primer was staked in, and the de-priming pin was not happy about it and decided to bend sideways.
I heated it and straightened it but it only lasted 5 more cases before breaking.
None of the other dies I purchased use the same pin so had to order one.
Lee offers them for free, in sets of three no less, but ILLINOIS passed some silly tax ruling and Lee will no longer send them out to Illinois at all so I had to purchase them and wait for delivery.
I ordered three of them and 1 extra for every other rifle die set I have.
So I assume case lube is on the menu so I got out the case lube I had for the steel dies sets and it said water soluble, so I watered it down as I'm prepping over 1250 cases and want it to last as I only have 1 tube, but after prepping those cases over the next 3 days I pulled the die and there was a little bit of rust on the threads.
After seeing all the crud from the lube on the mouth of the die, I pulled the die apart and found that it was beginning to rust on the inside, luckily, most of it was focused high on the de-priming pin.
I removed all the rusty crud, polished the pin on the bench grinder that has a fabric polish wheel, scrubbed the inner die with a poly bore brush and acetone, then once everything was spotless, I doused everything in a rust preventing gun oil from the 1960's.
I figure the Sears branded, catalog purchased bolt 22 and bolt 30-06 that it came with have not rusted, it probably works well, though probably toxic as hell.

So, I assume the resizing lube was not intended to be watered down?
BTW, after leaving the USMC decades ago, I have had 0% mentor-ship in anything gun related so am stumbling through reading as much as I can and hopefully relying on the mistakes of others.

[Minerat]

Look for some Imperial sizing wax or one of the lanolin infused sprays like Hornaday one shot or the Dillon one. I use a couple of spritzes of one shot in baggie with 100 .223 cases and work them around till coated. Then let them dry and start sizing. For pistol I use carbide dies.

I finally got tired of broken decapping pins and bought a Franklin universal decapper tool and I quit having that problem.

Heres a link on making your own sizing lube.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ake-case-luibe

And one on lubing 223 cases

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ass-for-sizing

[Walks]

Even if you have a full Carbide sizing die for bottleneck cases you still have to lube the those cases. Carbide works for straight cases simply because they are straight.
Bottle neck sizing dies grip the case completely. Simple Physics requires lubricant to allow the cases to release from the die.

As explained above by Minerat, Imperial Sizing Wax works GREAT. So does the explanation for Hornady One-Shot.
You must have gotten a Reloading manual with all your purchases. Reread the section on case sizing. And buy RCBS dies. I've never broken an RCBS decapping pin.

Water soluble means that you can WIPE the lube OFF the cases with a damp rag.

[Milky Duck]

of all the LEE products,I love them all except that crappy toothpaste like lube..chuck it far far away and use something like vasoline on body of case and powdered graphite in an old jar lid for dipping the necks in... as for degunking dies and preventing rust.... I gave mine a soak in 2stroke mixed petrol..back when it wasnt $3 a litre for fuel!!!! a spray of crc or wd40 will do a good job.... I recently purchased a expander/decapper pin for a set of .222 dies,cost me a whole $15 so no big deal.

[45_Colt]

I decided to start prepping the batch of .223/5.56 removing the primer and full length sizing them.
I'm using the LEE Deluxe 4 die set made out of carbide, and supposedly they do not require lube.

Those dies aren't carbide. For lube, as the others posted the Imperial and one-shot works well. I've been using the RCBS spray which is likely the same as the Hornady lube. Along with using the Imperial.

Then a 15 minute vibratory clean with walnut grit to get the lube off.

As for the 9mm and .45 ACP, just get carbide dies and forego the lube.

45_Colt

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Different strokes for different folks, Ducky. I seldom use anything but the Lee lube in the tube (tube lube?) and it works just great for me. I use it sparingly, rub it on with my forefinger just to where the brass looks dull. I've found that when loadings a couple of hundred rifle cases it seems to coat the inside of the sizing die and after doing 25 or so you can actually skip lubing maybe every 4th case. Caution: I don't do that as a routine, and discovered that as an "ooops!" after running in an unlubed case, but it came right back out. A little later on I tried another intentionally unlubed, expecting I'd need to break out the stuck case remover, but it came right back out also. Let me repeat--if you must experiment, try it at your own risk.

Moving along, rusty dies-- bad news. Seem to plague many of our Southern members who live in a humid climate. You've got to follow on after using by cleaning them as you would your rifle's barrel. Clean the inside with a solvent and light preservative (Hoppe's and gun oil work) and leave some preservative on the outside. I just bought a set of dies from a member in the South, and they were disappointingly rusty on the outside in the knurling at the top of each die where one would grab them to turn. Didn't show up in the photos. Fortunately they weren't rusty on the inside, and a short session with a soft wire brush mounted on my floor model buffer made them appear new. Seems no one has made stainless dies yet! I've seen blued dies, but they are also prone to rust. I've purchased and cleaned up many of the old Lyman 310 dies that were rusted so badly that when the rust was removed the exteriors were badly pitted. A touch up with some Oxpho Blue makes the look a bit better, but they retain that chewed up look. Fortunately, once again, the interiors seem to usually not have much rust, possibly protected by bullet lube.

Dies are, after all, tools, and should be treated with respect.

DG

[georgerkahn]

I add confirmation that Der Gebirgsjager is (as usual ) right on!!! I wish to add that a product I swear by which is called G96. The stuff is the complement to my other two "go-to" chems (Ballistol and Kroil) -- and, to me, for lack of a better word is amazing. It seems to both dissolve and remove rust while preventing it. Not the cheapest can in the store, I've seen it go anywhere between a few pennies over ten, to about twenty U S dollars a can! Amazon sells it at the higher, but, with "free" shipping.
Again -- very few products (or anything, for that matter ) I recommend. BUT -- g96 does get my vote!

[phaessler]

+1 with georgekahn on the G96.

I also discovered the Squirrel Daddy decapping pins from Amazon on all my 5.56 brass, never looked back either, hopefully you can get it thru Amazon.

[Half Dog]

For rusted parts I use a 50/50 mixture of automatic transmission fluid and mineral spirits.

Hope this helps.

[Markopolo]

I use Bag Balm for sizing cases.., it just works and is great for the hands.. just a tiny dab on your fingers will lube a bunch of cases… try it, you won’t be disappointed!!!!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Good ol' G96 Gun Treatment. I used it for years and years, and still have a couple of tall spray cans of it. I have a footlocker full of revolvers, mostly S&W and Colt, and I took off the grips, sprayed them down with G96, let them drip dry a bit, and stored them away for about 5 years in plastic bags with no-rust paper. A retired LE friend visited and expressed interest in seeing them, so we broke them out and found that at least half of them were too gummy to get the cylinders to turn or even open. It took me the better part of 2 weeks to disassemble and clean them. There was absolutely no rust though. As a result I started using RemOil which is thinner, doesn't seem to gum up, and given the plastic bags and no-rust paper seems to protect as well. However, I'm not knocking G96 which I still consider to be a superior product to many available. I still use it for small lube jobs where I want a little penetration and flow. Some folks have no use for silicon cloths, but G96 makes a wiping cloth saturated with the product that is the best I've found for wiping down guns after handling to avoid fingerprints.

DG

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Bag Balm! Another great product, and you learn something every day. I never heard of using it as case lube, but we were using it way back when I was a kid (1950s) for cow udders and hands. Still good for both applications. I guess you can still get the big cans? I do see it in stores, but very small cans. Seems pretty expensive now-- but what isn't? Some winters I get very painful cracks in the hands, and O'Keeffe's Working Hands is a great product. They'll usually heal up in just a couple of days. I put it on just before bedtime and it works overnight to seal the cracks closed.


DG

[ebb]

Use the Lee universal decap die on anything that could possibly have a crimped primer. The newer decap dies have a one piece pin that in near impossible to break. Knowing i could break one i bought a bag of replacement pins at the same time as the die and that has scared the pin in to not breaking. Most of this reloading stuff will only break when it's the weekend or holiday and no replacements can be found. However, if you have spare parts, they just won't break cause you can fix the problem and enjoy your reloading session.

[15meter]

Bag Balm! Another great product, and you learn something every day. I never heard of using it as case lube, but we were using it way back when I was a kid (1950s) for cow udders and hands. Still good for both applications. I guess you can still get the big cans? I do see it in stores, but very small cans. Seems pretty expensive now-- but what isn't? Some winters I get very painful cracks in the hands, and O'Keeffe's Working Hands is a great product. They'll usually heal up in just a couple of days. I put it on just before bedtime and it works overnight to seal the cracks closed.


DG

The big cans of Bag Balm are gone, replaced by a can about 1/3 smaller and the little tiny cans that are sold for women's purses.

I believe the larger of the two currently available sized cans is a victim of "shrinkflation", reduce package size and keep the price the same thus no price increase, no inflation.

It's magic!

And the wife hates the smell of Bag Balm, she buys me the O'keefe's even though I think the Bag Balm works better.

If you want the big(ish) cans, go online or to a farm supply store.

And to avoid total and complete thread drift, I use Imperial wax on short batch or on form jobs. RCBS lube and pad on bigger runs and a spray lube on BIG runs, Rooster Labs? I think.

[ulav8r]

Just checked Tractorsupply.com for Bag Balm. 1 ounce for $7.49 or 8 ounces for $9.49. A bit of difference in price per ounce! A little higher at Amazon.

[nicholst55]

Seems no one has made stainless dies yet!

Lyman's new Pro Dies are stainless steel. They also offer stainless steel carbide sizing dies for three popular rifle cartridges (.223, .308, and 6.5 Creedmoor), and most popular handgun cartridges.

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands...-sets/pro-dies

[Harter66]

Elmer Kieth used 16-1 lead tin to develop what became the 44 mag.

Fred Huntington used STP oil treatment to swage 22 RF cases into 22 HP bullets in his purpose designed Rock Chucker Bullet Swage press affectionately known as RCBS RCIV these days. That is also what RCBS repackaged for 60 yr for roll pad case lube . The STP oil treatment today isn't what it was in 1970 or even 1990 but it still works and , knock on wood , after my move from the Great Basin "what's rust" desert almost 5 years ago Blockade is keeping the rust off the guns and I don't have any rust on the important parts of the dies . Even those in paper boxes are good to go .

I know the wet lubes aren't clean like the others and oil gave 100,000 lab rats cancer in California but it's cheap , it works , and I don't have rust inside the dies .

[Mk42gunner]

This thread brings back so many memories.

While I can't say that I have ever used bag balm for case lube, it was my Grandma's go to for minor scrapes and abrasions a kid gets. I still have half of a 3x3x3 can in the medicine cabinet.

I have used STP, it works fine for normal resizing. For heavy duty case reforming, I like Imperial.

And the final one I'll mention is the Great Basin: The day I retired from the Navy, the weather channel said the humidity in Fallon was eight percent. Here it averages a lot closer to eighty.

Robert

[atr]

use a bore brush to clean the inside neck of the case before resizing, it will help the re-sizing process.
lubricate slightly the inside of the neck and the entire outside.
I use a 75/25 mix of 3-in one oil and Kroyl for a lubricant.

interesting thought on using Bag Balm as a case lubricant....I've use the stuff for my hands and face for many years, good stuff!

[Bmi48219]

Lanolin, liquid or cream. But it won’t protect the brass from discoloration. Mix it with 90-99% alcohol (HEET fuel treatment) one part lanolin to 5 parts HEET. The alcohol evaporates but not the lanolin.