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Thread: Any good chrongraph data for 22" .30-06's?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Any good chrongraph data for 22" .30-06's?

    Got a new deer rifle on the way. I've loaded TONS of .30-06 for 24" and longer barrels, and I've found TONS of manual data for 24" barrels. This one will be a 22", and while extrapolation and guesstimation is nice, it would be nice to find some hard numbers to help with the powder selection for shooting jacketed (the cast practice ammo will be easy enough as high intensity won't be a concern).

    Just rolling off the 24" data, it looks like H4350, H414, and Varget are the likely contenders for speed with 150 grain bullets. Anybody got data for the shorter tubes?
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master TurnipEaterDown's Avatar
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    I have loaded for 4 different 30-06s, including the 15" TC Encore.

    I found by my own experience & literature from Phil Sharpe cutting off a 30-06 & A-Square reducing barrel length on 300 Win Mag that there is about 1% velocity change per inch barrel change from 24" (within usable ranges, there was a defined knee on the speed curve from A-Square 300 WM).

    I found the Lyman notes on fast powder being better for the 15" barrel TC Encore Pistol (a useful boundary condition in my view for your question) to be bunk. The normal rifle propellants worked fine.
    Some selected bits from what I ran in 15" Encore:
    150gr Sierra SP Pro Hunter, H4350 60 gr, 2700 fps;
    220 gr Nosler Partition, 54 gr IMR4831, Rem 9 1/2, 2260 fps;
    150gr Sierra SP Pro Hunter, WC852 (older Bartlett slow lot) 63 gr, 2562 fps;
    150gr Sierra SP Pro Hunter, Surplus 4895 (Bartlett, 1990s) 51 gr, 2650 fps;
    180gr Hornady SP, IMR4350, 55 gr, 2410 fps (my 23" sporter 03 Springfield w/ 180 Speer BT, Fed 210, 54 gr same lot IMR4350 gave 2536 fps as a comparator for the general 1% per inch guideline).

    Take the book data, adjust 1% per inch for barrel, and you will guesstimate close enough given gun to gun difference due to chamber & bore, and powder & bullet lot changes.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master



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    I had a first year production of the Remington 700 bought in summer of 62 with a 20" barrel on it. I used IMR4895 for it and got outstanding accuracy from it. I used the Hornady 150 grain JSPBT bullet and I got under 1" five shot groups at 100 yards with consistancy. That was with open sights too, I had excellent eyesight back then. I did not have a chronograph then but with that kind of accuracy who cares. Books all said 2700 to 2800 FPS which was/is plenty good for deer. my experience anyway, james

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master
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    From what I remember fifteen to twenty years ago, two inches of barrel on a .30-06 may or may not make much difference.

    If you have a fast or slow barrel will do more to determine velocity than two inches.

    Work up your load as normal for accuracy, then check speed. Don't just blindly chase velocity.

    Most people will agree that a .30-06 will outdo a .308, until you get a fast .308 and a slow .30-06 then eyebrows start raising.

    Robert

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    As far as picking powders and such, there is not any real difference.

    Here is what to expect from the "best" powders in a 22":

    Code:
    Cartridge          : .30-06 Spring.  (SAAMI)
    Bullet             : .308, 150, Hornady InterBond 30309
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
    Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
    
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
    
    Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                          %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
    ---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Alliant Reloder-17 *T               99.1     58.3     3.78    2952    99.2    52500   10852   1.065  ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T           103.8     56.6     3.67    2927    97.9    52500   10668   1.064  ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter                     103.8     60.1     3.89    2897    95.6    52500   10620   1.075  ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4350                      103.3     57.9     3.75    2896    97.6    52500   10484   1.095  ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP *C                       103.5     57.4     3.72    2896    97.5    52500   10424   1.080  ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 760                      98.1     58.1     3.77    2891    94.6    52500   10556   1.078  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H414                        98.1     58.1     3.77    2891    94.6    52500   10556   1.078  ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 *C                 100.3     57.4     3.72    2890    97.3    52500   10498   1.087  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon CFE223 *C                   93.5     57.1     3.70    2890    97.7    52500   10327   1.078  ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Big Game                    93.3     55.7     3.61    2876    98.5    52500   10033   1.080  ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4895                            92.5     51.9     3.36    2868    98.7    52500   10035   1.092  ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 748                      85.9     51.8     3.36    2860    99.8    52500    9579   1.085  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon BL-C2                       88.4     54.1     3.50    2859    99.4    52500    9856   1.094  ! Near Maximum !
    And here is the 24":

    Code:
    Cartridge          : .30-06 Spring.  (SAAMI)
    Bullet             : .308, 150, Hornady InterBond 30309
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
    Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
    
    These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
    
    Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                          %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
    ---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Alliant Reloder-17 *T               99.1     58.3     3.78    3016    99.5    52500    9769   1.121  ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T           103.8     56.6     3.67    2990    98.5    52500    9625   1.121  ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Hunter                     103.8     60.1     3.89    2960    96.4    52500    9620   1.132  ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate 4350                      103.3     57.9     3.75    2959    98.2    52500    9459   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
    Norma URP *C                       103.5     57.4     3.72    2958    98.1    52500    9417   1.137  ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 760                      98.1     58.1     3.77    2954    95.4    52500    9562   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon H414                        98.1     58.1     3.77    2954    95.4    52500    9562   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N550 *C                 100.3     57.4     3.72    2953    97.9    52500    9494   1.144  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon CFE223 *C                   93.5     57.1     3.70    2952    98.3    52500    9328   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Big Game                    93.3     55.7     3.61    2936    99.0    52500    9043   1.138  ! Near Maximum !
    IMR 4895                            92.5     51.9     3.36    2929    99.1    52500    9047   1.149  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon BL-C2                       88.4     54.1     3.50    2918    99.7    52500    8873   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 748                      85.9     51.8     3.36    2918    99.9    52500    8596   1.143  ! Near Maximum !

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    If you knock off about 40 fps per inch from from 24” to 22” you will probably be very close. Not enough to worry about…or that you will probably tell the difference in drop IMO…. till you get past 500 yards. I never shoot my 06’ over a 150 yards so i zero it at 100 yards. Use to sight it in an inch high at 100 yards so it would zeroed or an inch low, give or take, at 200 yards. Out to 200 yards with 180 grain hand loaded core locts I just aim center mass behind the front shoulder and never missed my mark yet. Farther shots than that it’s not hunting to me. Use to think differently decades ago.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    IIRC difference in 22 vs 24 is 50fps maybe, depending on the charge. 150gn and a faster powder will probably show less of a difference than say a 180-200gn and slow powder.

    I'd just load and shoot. If curious about vel then carefully measure the drop of the bullet from 100 to 200 or 300yd (or futher). Then go back to a ballistic calculator to see what vel matches that drop.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Model 70 30/06, 22" barrel, 52-53 gr. of Imr 4064 (Work up and check for pressure signs) and 150 gr Sierra, was easy to get 2950-3000 fps.

    Always my "go to load" for deer.
    Last edited by Hickok; 10-06-2022 at 03:20 PM.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub -D-'s Avatar
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    Results from my Remington 721 with a 22" barrel at about 400' elevation:

    150gr Speer btsp, 49.0gr WW748, Federal case, WLR primer = 2629fps, 30 sd @ 40°
    150gr Speer btsp, 52.0gr AA4064, TW52(NATO) case, WLR primer = 2698fps, 15 sd @ 40°
    150gr Hornady FMJBT, 52.0gr AA4064, TW52(NATO) case, WLR primer = 2781fps, 19 sd @ 40°
    150gr Speer btsp, 57.0gr H4350, Federal case, WLR primer = 2526fps, 11 sd @ 40°
    150gr Speer btsp, 49.0gr IMR4895, Federal case, WLR primer = 2893fps, 19 sd @ 40°

    All as measured (minimum five shot sample) with my Chrony at about 10' from the muzzle. All loads listed produced 1.5moa or better (five shot) groups. The 52.0gr AA4064 load has generally been the most accurate with several 150gr bullets in several rifles.
    "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

    -Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



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    You need your own Chronograph. No other rifle has your exact chamber and measurements and data from another can be useless if chosen projectile fails to hit small.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Just sight in the rifle with your load and quit worrying. Choosing powder (in normal 06) range based on barrel length? Ridiculous. If you could hold ES down to 50 fps that would be about the same as barrel difference.
    Whatever!

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post

    I'd just load and shoot. If curious about vel then carefully measure the drop of the bullet from 100 to 200 or 300yd (or futher). Then go back to a ballistic calculator to see what vel matches that drop.
    That is good advice.
    Don Verna


  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Not sure how the conclusion was reached that I don't have access to a chronograph (I do), but OK. . .

    Having given it some study, I'll probably launch this boat with H4895, as it's a bit quicker burn than Varget (another likely contender which netted me 3000 fps with a 130 grainer out of an 18" .308). The effort here lies in maximizing my point-blank range on a 6-inch tall target with a more portable lightweight rifle. For this particular application, speed matters - hence the query about efficiency in the shorter tubes.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  14. #14
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    If you lived closer, I'd give you some Hodgdon Superformance to try.
    According to their manual, it'll sling bullets pretty fast from the 06.
    I haven't tried it in mine yet- but I will.

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    If you are only shooting out to 250-300 yards, you won't see a lot of difference. Past there, the difference between 22" and longer is pretty significant. I have had 6 measured minutes of difference at 1000 between 22 and 26" barrels. (60+ inches of extra drop) The first time I shot the Steel Safari Match in New Mexico, I used a 22" barreled 30-06. I tied for first and lost it in a shoot off but the trajectory past 500 was pretty loopy compared to my 26" barreled match rifles. I recently built a 28" -06. Its an eye opener what velocities you can get out of that long tube with the right powders.
    Low drag 200 grain bullets at 2680 hit hard and are darn flat without using a hatful of powder. I love my 300 Winchesters, but this is close.

    For 22" and shorter barrels 4895 is a good choice. I have been having great luck with AA2520/Shooters World Match Rifle in that range too.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Badger - good intel! The likelihood of this thing engaging past 300 yards is small, but not outside the realm of possibility. Looks like the mag/throat configuration of this rifle may necessitate a 165 grain bullet for best fit, so a bit of re-thinking is going on at present.
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by BadgerShooter View Post
    If you are only shooting out to 250-300 yards, you won't see a lot of difference. Past there, the difference between 22" and longer is pretty significant. I have had 6 measured minutes of difference at 1000 between 22 and 26" barrels. (60+ inches of extra drop) The first time I shot the Steel Safari Match in New Mexico, I used a 22" barreled 30-06. I tied for first and lost it in a shoot off but the trajectory past 500 was pretty loopy compared to my 26" barreled match rifles. I recently built a 28" -06. Its an eye opener what velocities you can get out of that long tube with the right powders.
    Low drag 200 grain bullets at 2680 hit hard and are darn flat without using a hatful of powder. I love my 300 Winchesters, but this is close.

    For 22" and shorter barrels 4895 is a good choice. I have been having great luck with AA2520/Shooters World Match Rifle in that range too.
    My long range 30-06 has a 32" Broughton barrel with 12" twist. I run the 178 Match bullets at 3,025 fps with 1/2 moa accuracy. For hunting ove rthe years with 30-06 rifles I've used 20", 122", 24", 23", 24" and 26" length barrels. Personally, I prefer 24" barrels but would have got a 26" barrel if the M70 came that way.

    I push my 30-06s to the same MAP level as the 308W which is 62,000 psi [actually measured]. I've found over the years with 150 gr bullets there is often about 100 fps difference between a 22" and 24" barrel. In a 22" barreled 30-06 with 150 gr jacketed bullets in W-W cases using WLR primers I use IMR 4895 working the load up to 2850 fps. I prefer the Hornady 150 gr SP or SPBTs as both have proven accurate and deadly.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Larry Gibson

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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    The modern thought is that the 30-06 is obsolete and an inadequate performer. With a 24"+ tube and the right loads, it takes a lot more cartridge and powder to beat it an any significant way.

    Give 4000MR a try in that long barreled monster. That powder really comes alive in longer than average tubes.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    52-53gr of IMR 4064 and any 150gr bullet
    57-58gr IMR 4350 and any 165gr bullet

    If your gun doesn't shoot one of those into tight groups, get a new rifle.

    My 22" Pre 64 custom M70 gets 90-100 less fps than my 24" M70 Classic Sporter. The deer can't seem to tell the difference though.

    Thanks, Dinny
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    IMO If there accurate what difference does it make ??? A few 100 FPS in a 100 yds, 1200FPS verses 3000FPS deer won't know ?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check