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Thread: Where to start

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerat View Post
    Remember.Black Powder is used by VOLUME not weight. So a 50gr by volume load is not very heavy. I use a 100 gr by volume in my 54 TC Hawk and 35 gr by volume in my ROA 45 cal pistol.

    Sorry for yelling but 50gr by weight may be dangerous!
    Despite the moderator status and 8000posts your yelling is just WRONG (this time)

    1) no such thing as volume grains -, its a measure of weight.
    2) the volume of measures is calibrated so that the volume marks represent grains weight of common commercial powders
    3) if the measure is from any half decent manufacturer it will be close enough to its marked weight that it will not be dangerous
    4) there is some variation in the density of commercial blackpowders, and also variations in the energy of them (Swiss vs Wano fr instance) but its not enough to generate a dangerous situation if equal volumes or equal weight loads are used

    this pertains to real blackpowder - if you are talking about fake substitutes (eg pyrodex et al) that is a different matter - the directions for reduced weight loads of that are on the can (or were last time I saw one)

  2. #22
    Boolit Master slim1836's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Dog View Post
    Wow. Now I understand that I’ll need a mentor to train this old goat.
    I might be able to help you locally. PM me your phone # and I'll call you back or I'll reply to PM with mine.

    Slim
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    NOT MY PROBLEM ANYMORE

    LET'S GO BRANDON

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Sasquatch 1
    I guess I am A world class Fibber.
    I have Never Dry Balled any of my rifles.
    Mainly because I have seen so many people do that , and them come to me to fix their problem.
    I have never met anyone who has been shooting smoke for a year or more who has never dry balled.

    You sir are my new Super Hero.
    A vote for anyone other then the conservative candidates is a vote for the liberal candidates.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you Sasquatch 1.
    I too have never charged anyone to unload a dry balled rifle.
    But I do it while they watch so they learn what to do.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Thank you Sasquatch 1.
    I too have never charged anyone to unload a dry balled rifle.
    But I do it while they watch so they learn what to do.
    I started charging an old friend. He was an expert level dry baller, due to talking all the time. I have a CO2 discharger, and I started charging him a buck every time I used it to clear a ball. Jack was darned tight with a nickle, and after giving me a few bucks, he got a lot better about not dry balling. I sure miss him now, and would give anything to blow another ball out for him.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Most of the dry balling I removed was just with removing the nipple and drizzling the powder in then putting the nipple back in and firing it.
    That was at the range.
    But at my house.
    In the back yard , I built a Test Firing Chamber out of an 8' long piece of 8" steel pipe I brought home from one of my demolition projects.
    It was set in the ground at a 45° angle with a plywood plug on top with a smaller hole cut into it.
    Only twice I had to use a grease gun and a Zerk fitting.
    That was on rifles where they had a lot of lube or cleaner that wet the powder when they poured it in so then it wouldn't ignite.
    And only one I had to use a Ball puller on a cleaning rod with a T Handle on the other end with the barrel set in a vise.
    That barrel was someone's Flinters that had the flash hole set too far forward.
    That caused a problem , because if you dry balled the barrel.
    The ball was sitting right over the flash hole so you couldn't charge the hole with powder.
    But most Dry Balled rifles that people had me do were In Lines and new shooters.
    I just never did buy a CO 2 discharger because I never thought that I would need it for MY rifles.
    The reason I never charged anyone to get that ball or Boolit out was , it is more important to me to Teach Someone rather than make money.
    And teaching someone also most of the time prevented them from making the same mistake again.
    Now on that Flinters with the miss placed hole.
    The guy was so impressed with what I found , he bought a rifle from me that I had built.
    Last edited by LAGS; 10-03-2022 at 01:59 PM.

  7. #27
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    You need to hang out here...https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/
    “You should tell someone what you know. There should be a history, so that men can learn from it.

    He smiled. “Men do not learn from history. Each generation believes itself brighter than the last, each believes it can survive the mistakes of the older ones. Each discovers each old thing and they throw up their hands and say ‘See! Look what I have found! Look upon what I know!’ And each believes it is something new.

    Louis L’Amour

    The Californios

  8. #28
    Boolit Master armoredman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1 View Post
    If anyone says they have never dry balled a gun they are either very new to muzzle loading or a world class fibber.
    Not yet - I am new enough to the sport that I am trying to pay VERY close attention!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Despite the moderator status and 8000posts your yelling is just WRONG (this time)

    1) no such thing as volume grains -, its a measure of weight.
    2) the volume of measures is calibrated so that the volume marks represent grains weight of common commercial powders
    3) if the measure is from any half decent manufacturer it will be close enough to its marked weight that it will not be dangerous
    4) there is some variation in the density of commercial blackpowders, and also variations in the energy of them (Swiss vs Wano fr instance) but its not enough to generate a dangerous situation if equal volumes or equal weight loads are used

    this pertains to real blackpowder - if you are talking about fake substitutes (eg pyrodex et al) that is a different matter - the directions for reduced weight loads of that are on the can (or were last time I saw one)
    I was taught that you used a volumetric measuring device for BP powder and did not use a weighing scale since they were more troublesome to carry in the field. It never occurred to me to weigh the charge from the volumetric measuring device. I'll still choose to use this method to avoid any confusion since it has worked for me over the last 40 years. My volume measure is marked grains (gr) and that always confused me but the old guys that mentored me called the 90 graduation mark as "90 grains". If you have a better name for what the marks are on one, I'm open to suggestions.

    I agree with your comment on following the directions on BP substitutes cans.

    With that said, you have me curious to verify your explanation of volume as it corresponds to approximate weight.

    And my bolded capitalized text had nothing to do with my moderator status or post count. But it caught your attention as I intended.
    Steve,

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    Member: Clear Creek County Sportsman Association


    Kilo Charlie zero Golf Papa Tango (kc0gpt)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Dog View Post
    Wow. Now I understand that I’ll need a mentor to train this old goat.
    A mentor standing next to you would be great, but if you can’t find one, you’ll get a lot of good advice here.
    Welcome to muzzle loading!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerat View Post
    I was taught that you used a volumetric measuring device for BP powder and did not use a weighing scale since they were more troublesome to carry in the field. It never occurred to me to weigh the charge from the volumetric measuring device. I'll still choose to use this method to avoid any confusion since it has worked for me over the last 40 years. My volume measure is marked grains (gr) and that always confused me but the old guys that mentored me called the 90 graduation mark as "90 grains". If you have a better name for what the marks are on one, I'm open to suggestions.

    They are marks equivalent to grains weight of a typical commercial blackpowder absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing.

    Twas the dangerous comment that got me going - most of us are using measures - and in the end most powder is dispensed by volume measures albeit calibrated by scale weight first. I usually cut measures to suit after first weighing a charge or two - old bullet shells are good. I checked the couple of commercial ones we have before I posted - the volume marks are pretty close equivalent to scale weight. So nothing wrong with sailing in with commercial blackpowder and a volume measure . near enough is quite good enough there. Not a viable plan with smokeless powder though and like we agree read the label with substitutes they are likely very different densities to real black.

    I agree with your comment on following the directions on BP substitutes cans.

    With that said, you have me curious to verify your explanation of volume as it corresponds to approximate weight.

    Most commercial Blackpowders are close enough to each other and to the volume graduations that we are not in danger . Pyrodex is quite a bit less dense than real black so the same volume as real powder might be fine but equal weight of each gives an overload of pyrodex - it has much more energy per grain of weight - read the label first.

    And my bolded capitalized text had nothing to do with my moderator status or post count. But it caught your attention as I intended.

    ya proly took that better than you should have - had to extricate my favourite pony from a fence smash that day, not a pretty deal - was touch and go do we shoot her for a bit. wanted to live so we go with that for now. So call that an apology if you think it warranted.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Half Dog's Avatar
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    Thanks for the support guys. Perhaps I’ll need to post a couple of questions at a time.

    1) Which powder to try and find. It looks like 2f and 3f seems to be the powders to choose. Does it matter which one? Are there any advantages of one over another?
    2) My 9mm uses bore diameter + 0.002”. How do I select which lead ball diameter to use?
    The sooner I fall behind...the more time I have to catch up with

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Half Dog View Post
    Thanks for the support guys. Perhaps I’ll need to post a couple of questions at a time.

    1) Which powder to try and find. It looks like 2f and 3f seems to be the powders to choose. Does it matter which one? Are there any advantages of one over another?
    2) My 9mm uses bore diameter + 0.002”. How do I select which lead ball diameter to use?
    1) Either one of those powders will work fine. I doubt you will see much difference but the 3f may burn a little cleaner and be a little faster burning. If all you can find is the fake powders, they will label differently. Pyrodex will label their rifle/shotgun powder as RS.
    2) Finding your ball size and patch thickness will be a little trial and error. Your ball will probably be -.010 to -.005 below bore size. When you load a ball with a patch into the muzzle and pull it out you are looking for a heavy engraving into the soft lead ball from the patching where the rifling is and a light engraving where the grooves are.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master Sasquatch-1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    He was an expert level dry baller, due to talking all the time.
    That'll do it every time and I am guilty as charged.
    A vote for anyone other then the conservative candidates is a vote for the liberal candidates.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post

    ya proly took that better than you should have - had to extricate my favourite pony from a fence smash that day, not a pretty deal - was touch and go do we shoot her for a bit. wanted to live so we go with that for now. So call that an apology if you think it warranted.
    Joe, I took it with a grain of salt. I got my dander up but the only way to learn is to listen to what the other guy has to say. You gave me a reason to listen instead of explode. I'm now curious to see for my self. You also inadvertently answered another nagging question. I bought a Sharps .45-90 and was wondering if I should use volume as I explained or a scale. Looks like I'm on track to figuring that out. So thanks.

    Hope the pony makes it. That must have been very stressing. Your appology is accepted.

    Sorry Half Dog for the distraction.
    Steve,

    Life Member NRA
    Member: Clear Creek County Sportsman Association


    Kilo Charlie zero Golf Papa Tango (kc0gpt)

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy
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    I will have to admit that I have never dry balled a gun before. That said, I have had to help clear the rifles of others and decided that I need to pay attention to what I am doing so I won't join that club.
    I like the Black Belt (Now Powerbelt) slugs or the TC maxiballs when hunting. I used to use PolyPatch patches, but they are long out of production. If shooting RB, I use bore butter on my patches
    Built mine decades ago when TC had kits so you could build your own.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Half Dog's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the responses.

    Sometimes getting off subject exposes an area that will need exploring too.
    Anger is a reaction to being threatened and I hope that’s never the case. I believe a persons reasoning can be looked at objectively so I appreciate all the information I receive.
    The sooner I fall behind...the more time I have to catch up with

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerat View Post
    Joe, I took it with a grain of salt. I got my dander up but the only way to learn is to listen to what the other guy has to say. You gave me a reason to listen instead of explode. I'm now curious to see for my self. You also inadvertently answered another nagging question. I bought a Sharps .45-90 and was wondering if I should use volume as I explained or a scale. Looks like I'm on track to figuring that out. So thanks.

    Hope the pony makes it. That must have been very stressing. Your appology is accepted.

    Sorry Half Dog for the distraction.
    If you want to get the best out of that sharps I reckon you end up weighing charges - I have never been able to get as consistent charges or velocity with a measure - can get into single digit Extreme Spreads with careful loading and exact weight charges - maybe not a big deal at closer ranges but the farther out you get the more difference its gonna make. I do shoot ungraphited powder and that makes scoop measure more tricky.
    In a muzzleloader ? the couple times I shot over a chronograph I got as much or more velocity variation depending on ramrod pressure as I got from the scoop measure
    There is an old ryhme "if you want to kill em dead, ram the powder not the lead" cant say where I read it or heard it but its stuck in my subconscious for decades - one day I test that idea - could be interesting? .......kind of fits with how we load BPC for accuracy ---drop tube , compression, then a very light crimp on a boolit that fits easy in the case

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy
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    Go here and scroll down to "Hawken".

    https://www.tcarms.com/owners-manuals

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy
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    One thing about their manual is they used to say use hot �� VERY HOT �� water to clean. DON'T! It does clean ok but as it quickly air drys it causes flash rusting in the bore. Use tap warm. Use cold if the only thing handy is a creek or beaver pond.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check