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Thread: "A nice pair of 38s" . . . . . Arisaka Rifles

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    "A nice pair of 38s" . . . . . Arisaka Rifles

    About a year ago, I was givens two Japanese Type 38 Arisaka Rifles by my cousin. His father, my uncle, brought both of these rifles back after the war. Around 1955 or so, he and my aunt built a new house and they both hung over the fireplace until two years ago. My aunt and uncle passed away a number of years ago, but their daughter lived in their house after they passed away until her death two years ago,.

    History Of The Rifles

    My uncle graduated from high school in 1937 and then went on to college. At the outbreak of the war, he was in medical school, studying to be a doctor. Near the end of the war, there was such a shortage of doctors that they graduated his class early and all of the men in the class that were able bodied, were soon in the service, My uncle was commissioned as a Lieutenant J.G. in the United States Naval Reserve and then immediately called to active duty. He ended up being assigned to the U.S.S. Cimmaron, a Naval “Tanker”, as the ship’s Medical Officer. They left California headed for active duty in the Pacific, but as they were on their way ov er, the war ended. The U.S.S. Cimmaron was anchored in Tokyo Bay at the time of the signing of the surrender on the U.S/S. Missouri. During his time in the service, he kept a “journal”, and in it, he relates that while they were anchored in Tokyo Bay, one night a fully armed Japanese soldier swam out to the ship and climbed the anchor chain and got “on-board”, intent on still serving his Emperor by blowing up the ship. A number of “Sea Marines” standing guard on the ship quickly “took care of the matter”. After the surrender, some of the officers of the ship, including my uncle, went ashore where there were piles of surrendered Japanese military equipment, including piles of rifles, bayonets, helmets, etc. My uncle selected the two Type 38 Arisaka Rifles along with three bayonets and several helmets and took them as “souvenirs”.

    For 65 years or so, the rifles hung over the fireplace. They were dusted during weekly house-cleanings, but never used or fired. When I received them, they were overall in good shape, but needed a good cleaning. I disassembled them and cleaned off any old grease with 0000 steel wool and solvent, then rubbed the metal surfaces down with 0000 steel wool and Ballistol. This brought the metal and the bluing back to life. The stocks were “dingy”, but 0000 steell wool and a 50/50 mix of boiled linseed oil and turpentine cleaned the years of dirt off of them and the original finish with a nice “patina” emerged.

    As you can see in the photos, these rifles bear the stamp of the Mukden Arsenal (Manchuria). The rifle at the bottom of the photo of the two rifles bears the serial number “67” and the one at the top, the serial number “210”. To the naked eye, the last number of the three digit serial number is unable to be made out clearly, but taking a photo of it and enlarging it, it is clearly a “0”. The butt stock of the #67 rifle had a “split” that originated from the bottom butt plate screw. I am of the opinion that this split may have happened during the making of the rifle and it was repaired at the time as there is a small dowel that was put in the stock from the underside up into the area that was split. Over the years, the split opened up again and I was able to make a repair to it so that it will never be an issue. I have shown photos of the split. The #67 rifle came with a heavy web sling with the quick attach/dis-attach clips on the end (not shown in photos).

    From what I have been able to find out, the Mukden Arsenal’s first production run was from serial numbers 0 to 7,000. It later made two other production runs but the serial numbers used were not consecutive to the run of 0 to 7,000 and were stamped with much higher numbers. Given that these rifles are serial numbered “67” and “210”, they were part of the early initial run at the Mukden Arsenal and date to probably early 1934. Both rifles are complete and have their original “dust covers” and all stampings, including the “Mum” are present.

    The bores of both rifles are in very good shape with heavy rifling. A few strokes with a bronze brush and Ballistol had them shining. Both bores “slug” at .264”.

    I no longer hunt, so my goal with these rifles is to shoot cast and milder loads – strictly for plinking and paper punching. They have great sentimental value to me and for that reason, I want to be able to shoot them.

    I use Red Dot with cast in several other rifles I have, including a GEW98 Mauser that was brought back from France in 1919 by a local World War I Veteran that I knew. For these rifles, I am using PPU brass and have three different Lyman/Ideal molds to try. The plain base 266-324 – 119 gr., the 266-455 – 127 g.r. gas checked and the 266-469 – 140 gr. gas checked. I’m using copper gas checks from Sage and am sizing them at .266” with a NOE sizer – tumble lubing in Alox/Paste Wax. I am taking the #210 Type 38 and my loaded up load development rounds with me to Arizona this winter and am really looking forward to seeing what the rifle will do.

    I just wanted to share these two rifles here. I now refer to them as “the twins”. I’m old and never figured that I would ever be shooting Arisaka Rifles. At one time, I had a small collection of mil-surp rifles that included some Type 99 Arisakas as well as Brit Enfields, etc. – but I never shot any of them and I disposed of them some twenty years ago. I have to say that the more I handle these rifles, the more respect I have for them. They are very well designed and made and I have greatly enjoyed being able to get my feet wet with the 6.5 X 50 cartridge as I have cast for them and learned the “tricks” to loading them with what I have on hand. Once we get back out to Arizona and I can get to a range with a friend I shoot with, I’ll post how it works out with #210.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2.jpg   9.jpg   38 - A.jpg   38 - B.jpg   38 - C.jpg  

    38 - D.jpg   38 - E.jpg  

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    More Photos . . . .

    More photos of the Arisakas
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 38 - F.jpg   38 - G.jpg   38 - H.jpg   38 - I.jpg  

  3. #3
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    Nice! I'd get some glue into that butt stock crack and give the stock a couple of wraps with tightly stretched surgical tubing until it dries.
    The rifles seem in really nice condition with lots of the original blue on the metal. They should prove to be lots of fun to shoot.

    DG

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Excellent write-up! Look forward to the results.

    Dutch

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I'm another one interested in how things turn out. Good luck.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Nice post.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Very cool!

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy tigweldit's Avatar
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    bedbugbilly, great write-up! Need more. I have a "38" and a "99" that my fil brought back. I've shot them both. Have mold, sizer and dies for the 99. Nothing for the 38 except old Norma ammo that works well. These are great old guns that I look forward to getting to know better. I look forward to reading more about your journey. Nice job on the refinishings.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks for sharing with us. Sounds like your rifles are in better than average condition, and should be fun to play with.
    As you probably know the 6.5 will take some work to get it to shoot lead bullets. Anything under 30 caliber is difficult in my experience, but it can be done. Sizing the long thin 6.5 bullet must be done carefully, or your bullets will look like a banana.

    These rifles are some of the strongest actions ever made, and are usually crafted of very fine steel.
    As you probably know, the intact crests make your rifle more valuable, and are some what unusual, as most were ground or other wise defaced, before coming to our country.

    I received a type 38 in 6.5 x 51 several years ago from my Dad, and I later purchased a type 99 to go with it.
    For what ever reason, for the first 5 years or so that I had the 6.5 I never shot it.

    In the 2019 - 2020 school year, we hosted a Japanese exchange student. She took quite an interest, shooting while she was here, and was a real joy to be around. She was really interested, in both Dad's rifle, the bayonet, as well as my type 99.
    She took many pictures of all of them, and told us what the writing on them said.

    I asked her if she would like to shoot them, and she was pretty excited.
    So I loaded some light loads for the 6.5 with jacketed stuff, and some light cast lead loads for the type 99 and we went to the range.
    She had a great time, and the guns shot pretty well. The 6.5 shoots about a foot high at 50 yards, so we used two targets one over the top of the other. We aimed at the bottom and hit the top target.

    Good luck with your guns, and keep us posted.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    Nice write up and good looking rifles.

    If I may suggest, print out a copy of the write up along with your uncle's name to store with the rifles.

    I don't know if you have anyone in your family that is interested in guns or not, but more documentation is better than less.

    Robert

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    TCLouis's Avatar
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    The "split" in the stock is a part of the manufacturing process.

    Two pieces jioned save a lot of wood over time.

    Withe the butt plate removed the two pieces may well be able to be slid apart.
    Those are significantly more valuable with the MUM intact.

    How are the bores?
    Boolits sized to 0.266" or bigger may shoot quite well.
    Amendments
    The Second there to protect the First!

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    Thanks all . . . . .

    The history of theses 2 old gals is all written down and in my gun inventory with the individual information sheets for each one . . . I do that for all of my firearms that have a "history" along with supporting documents if there are any.

    TCJ - the crack in #67's stock was not at the joint of the two piece stock. It was below the joint and originated at the bottom butt plate screw. It apparently cracked at the time of original assembly - most likely due to a quirk in the grain of the individual piece of wood. It was glued and repaired and then a small dowel run up through the bottom of the butt to reinforce it - not a "new" repair done in later years - and over the years, the glue used in the original repair let go and with the wood drying out, the crack separated. Not really a surprise as these hung over a fireplace that in later years had an insert installed in it and heat radiating up from the insert would have flowed right over the rifles. Surprisingly, the joints where the two piece buttstocks were joined are both as tight as the day they were joined and glued.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check