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Thread: These Guys Have Never Heard Of A 257 Roberts?

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master

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    These Guys Have Never Heard Of A 257 Roberts?

    https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/fi...c_id=499888465

    Remember that old children’s story, “Goldilocks and the Three Bears?” Some take the moral as a warning against breaking and entering, but most folks probably remember the story’s lesson about moderation: not too hot, not too cold, not too hard, not too soft—just right.

    The .257 Roberts is the Goldilocks of whitetail cartridges. It’s not a screamer and it’s not a slowpoke. It’s not a small game cartridge and it’s not a dangerous game cartridge. Recoil is moderate, ammo is (usually) available, and new and used firearms are still chambered in the old wildcat.

    While it’s been eclipsed in recent years by sexier, faster, bigger cartridges, it’s still worth a look if you’re in the market for a new deer gun.

    High Praise for the .257 Roberts
    Like the “X-Files” and duck gizzards, the .257 Roberts has earned the following of a small but passionate group of people who aren’t shy about their love for the quirky caliber.

    When I asked Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool & Gauge to name his favorite whitetail cartridge, he didn’t hesitate. “The .257 Roberts. It’s a perfect all-around gun,” Kiff said.

    Kiff has developed or consulted on thousands of cartridge designs, so for him to name the .257 without second thought is no small potatoes.

    Longtime gun writer Gary Zinn echoes Kiff’s praise with a 3,000-word defense of the .257 in an article on Chuck Hawks’ website.

    “My purpose here is to propose (or plead for) a resurrection of the .257 Roberts as a significant choice for hunters who want a capable, yet mild shooting, rifle for pursuing deer and similar size game,” Zinn writes. “The Roberts is not a puny quarter-bore cartridge!”

    Frank C. Barnes, author of the classic “Cartridges of the World,” agrees that the .257 Roberts is one of “the most useful rifle cartridges ever developed.”

    The .257 isn’t just loved by industry insiders, either. Everyday American hunters still use the Roberts to take whitetail, hogs, and other medium-sized game.

    “My grandfather built me a .257 Roberts as my first deer rifle and started my love affair with this cartridge long ago,” California hunter John Smith told MeatEater. Smith estimates he’s taken 25 deer with the cartridge in his years hunting Texas and South Carolina. “It is arguably the perfect deer-sized cartridge. Flat shooting, low recoil, accurate, and deadly.”

    Texas hunting guide Floyd Parr told us he’s taken a wide variety of animals with the .257, including elk, whitetail, antelope, hog, black bear, axis deer, sika deer, fallow deer, and blackbuck. “It’s my go-to round,” he said. “It’s perfect.”

    Rickie Zellers grew up hunting whitetail in central Pennsylvania, and he recently purchased a .257 Roberts for his aging father.

    “My dad eats, sleeps, and poops deer hunting,” Zellers said. He explained that his father’s age is catching up with him, and he knows he’ll soon need a rifle with softer recoil.

    “So, I thought, what better than a timeless classic, the .257 Roberts? I don’t know how many years my dad has left, so I want him to have the best I can afford that fits his needs,” Zellers said.

    .257 Roberts Ballistics
    Despite the .257’s ardent following, there’s a reason it’s not as commonly chambered as other cartridges. Vortex’s Ryan Muckenhirn explained that the .257 Roberts has suffered from the no-man’s land that is quarter-bore cartridges.

    “It’s a bullet diameter bracketed on either side by wildly more successful bullet diameters,” he said on a recent episode of the Vortex podcast.

    Smaller calibers like the 6mm usually boast higher ballistic coefficients and sectional densities while shooting comparably weighted bullets. On the other side of the scale, the 6.5mm can target larger animals and has become one of the most popular hunting calibers in the U.S.

    To make matters worse for the Roberts, the .25-06 Remington runs in the same caliber lane as the .257 but can push a 100-grain bullet about 300 feet-per-second faster. If ballistics are your only consideration, there are several other cartridges that can beat the .257 Roberts in a foot race.

    But for most hunters, ballistics aren’t the only consideration. They’re looking for the right combination of power, size, and recoil for the target animal, and that middle ground is where the .257 shines (Goldilocks, remember?).

    The .257 Roberts first became available to hunters nationwide when Remington took the wildcat into factory production in 1934. It was developed by gun writer and experimenter N.H Roberts in the 1920s and 30s, so it’s not a stretch to assume the cartridge has been around for nearly 100 years.

    As with many old cartridges, the original .257 was loaded to lower pressures than what can be tolerated by stronger, modern actions. To allow the cartridge to reach its full potential, ammo companies in the 1980s began producing “+P” loads.

    With these higher-pressure cartridges, the .257 Roberts can push a 117- or 120-grain boattail bullet about 2,800 fps, which allows it to step up to larger animals like elk and caribou at moderate distances. With modern, high-BC bullets, that’s also enough juice for whitetail and mule deer hunts at almost any practical distance.

    Federal’s custom-loaded .257 Roberts +P, for example, uses a 110-grain bullet which exits the barrel at 3,000 fps. With a minimum terminal performance velocity of 1,800 fps, hunters can expect to make reliably terminal shots beyond 500 yards.

    The Roberts combines that solid ballistic performance with feather-light recoil. Chuck Hawks reports that a 100-grain .257 exiting the barrel at 3,000 fps produces only 9.3 ft-lbs. of recoil with a 7.5-pound rifle. For comparison, a .25-06 Rem. produces 11 ft.-lbs. of energy with an 8-pound rifle, a .270 Win. produces about 17 ft.-lbs. with an 8-pound rifle, and a .30-06 produces about 20 ft.-lbs. with an 8-pound rifle.

    These recoil figures can be adjusted with heavier or lighter bullets, of course, but when using the most common factory loads, the .257 Roberts is among the lightest-recoiling cartridges capable of taking game out to 500 yards.

    How to Buy a .257 Roberts
    The .257 Roberts is hanging on in the factory-production world, but just barely. Nosler offers a box of 20 cartridges for $93. You can get a box of the Federal load mentioned above for $100. Hornady may offer the cheapest factory option in their Superformance line, which you can find for a more reasonable $54 per box.

    New factory rifle options are even more limited. Kimber offers their Hunter line chambered in .257 Roberts, and Ruger still makes their Model No. 1 in .257. Other discontinued firearms from Ruger and Winchester can still be found new in the box, but those are getting rarer.

    Otherwise, hunters hoping to help resurrect the .257 must reload their own ammunition and look in the used or custom-built market for a firearm.

    That’s a damn shame. Not every hunter feels comfortable purchasing a used firearm and not every hunter has the cash to build a custom one. Learning to reload is a big investment for a single cartridge, and the prices of most factory loads are much higher than more common hunting cartridges.

    The .257 Roberts is a great all-around deer cartridge, so it’s too bad that it’s so difficult and/or expensive to get your hands on one. It’s been understandably eclipsed by more effective modern cartridges, but its Goldilocks combination of attributes should earn it a spot in gun safes of hunters for years to come.
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Me thinks the .257 Roberts AI from P.O. Ackley a generation ago is a "Goldy Locks Cartridge." It's old light shines even brighter with modern bullets like the 110 gr. Nossler Acubond.
    All that said the original .257 Roberts is indeed a very good cartridge.
    If liars pants really did catch on fire, watching the news would be a lot more fun!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I had 257 Roberts brass and dies from a neighbor who retired from handloading.

    Then I got into current production Savage centerfire bolt guns.

    Then I got the tooling, bought a Savage factory take off barrel chambered for the Roberts cartridge.

    I do not need to AI it because I have two 25-06’s and a spare barrel that could make that “three”.

    I like the Roberts ....... nostalgia and efficiency in the same package!

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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy eastbank's Avatar
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    i have a kimber montana in .257 roberts and with a 4x leupold scope and light weight tally one piece rings-mount come in at 6lbs 2 onces, it shoots 115 gr bullets at close to 3000 fps with hybrid 100v into 1-1.5" five shot groups at 100 yards.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Wolfdog91's Avatar
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    ....think I'll stick with my 6.5 grendel.. as much as I'd like to have a .257 just for having one their just not a financial optimal choice at all especially for most people my age
    A wise man will try to learn as much from a fool as he will from a master, for all have something to teach- Uncle Iroh
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    There are so many cartridges that do damn near exactly the same thing, it's only natural that some will fade as the fickle consumer drifts from thing to thing.
    One day the same article will be written about 6.5 Creedmoor.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    I like the 250 Savage as well.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master gc45's Avatar
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    My 257R Improved is built on the Winchester model 70 pre-64. Can't remember the last count but so many whitetails, mulies and antelope have been taken with it and still going strong! We all have our own preferences but for me and my hunting rifle it is the 257!

  9. #9
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    In between the .250 Savage and 25-06 Remington is a great place to be. I've used both of those sucessfully for years. I wouldn't mind having one on a 93 or 98 Mauser action .

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    The actual killer of the 257 Roberts isn't that it's a 25 cal .
    The 6mm Rem , 6.5×55 ,7×57,8×57, and 9×57 all have one thing in common that kills them in the modern market . They are too long for the short action and have 3/8-1/2" left over in the long action . Back in the 60s,70s and 80s and as early as the 20s when there were surplus Mausers by the 100 in every store that sold ammo it wasn't even a consideration. Now it takes a 223 , 308 , 06' or mag length or it doesn't sell .

    With that said I have a 257 in a 95 Spanish Mauser and a barrel waiting for either a rethread for an 1908 Ovido or another 98 to fall in my lap .

    My Dad loved the 257 but never had one and never got to shoot the one I had finished for him by Goodsteel . He settled about 1972 for a M700 BDL Varmint Master in 25-06' . I doubt I have enough time left to shoot it out far enough to justify a 1.25 inch set back and rechamber .

    As luck would have it I have dies for the 257 R and 257 R AI ......and a 25 Souper and 25-06' ........no 250-3000 dies , no rifles to go with them .....
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Didn’t Remington chamber the short action 722 in 257 Roberts? I believe my uncle had one of those.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdog91 View Post
    ....think I'll stick with my 6.5 grendel.. as much as I'd like to have a .257 just for having one their just not a financial optimal choice at all especially for most people my age
    Yep! I wouldn't give up my Grendel for a 257 Roberts, and I've shot them in the past. It's far inferior to the 260 Remington as well!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    About 25-30 years ago I found a Remington 721 in 25 Bob (the caliber's nick-name) and it was wearing a J. Unertl scope. That scope had the brand name and serial numbers on the tube and the number "10" on the eyepiece locking ring. Since I wanted the rifle for deer hunting The Unertl went into retirement and a different glass replaced it. My load development was fun and easy as the rifle liked most any load I fed it. The deer hated it. Still have both the rifle and scope and smile at the way it was always up to the challenge of putting meat on the table.

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    i have a sporterized '16 Spanish Mauser (Ovidio) that, uhm, "needs" a 257 Bob barrel. i've wanted one since i was 15-16 years old. i nearly had it 20 some years ago, a Browning A bolt Micro Medallion, but you know how life goes........... at an auction, i got into bidding war on the Ruger #1 in 257 Bob about 7 or 8 years ago, i lost. there were other Bob's, but at the time(s), my wallet was empty.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy eastbank's Avatar
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    it was rebarred if it was on a rem 721 action, the .257 roberts was only on the rem 722 short action. i owned two 722,s in .257 roberts and they shoot lights out with 100 gr nbt bullets at 3000+fps. my kimber montana has enough lenth to get 115 gr bullets to 2900+fps with no problems.

  16. #16
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    I’ve got a 257R on a 1910 Mex Mauser action all ready to go, however, finding a stock to fit this oddball (but excellent..) Mex Mauser action is unique unto itself. Not a large ring, not a small ring, not an intermediate ring or a Swede 95,96 etc. I keep it because it’s always been a favorite and someday I may be able to afford a custom stock made for it.

    257R is an extremely undervalued cartridge IMHO..

    Art
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  17. #17
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    Yes, the Bob is a good cartridge. But I wanted my bigger quarter bore in a single shot so I wanted a rimmed cartridge. (bigger - I have a 25-20) Found a set of 25 Krag AI dies on Midway Overstock - that sealed the deal for caliber. Ordered a Encore barrel, and a guy on here sent me his set of never used reamers. Have the barrel on my Katadin and form my cartridges. It is a challenge. I've posted here my process for making the cartridges.

    This is two grams of water capacity greater than the Bob AI and two grams of water less than the 25-06. I have Sierra data for both. It's a chinch to load. I haven't tried cast boolits in it yet.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I don't own a medium-small bore rifle, but maybe it's time I did. I have .223, .308, and 8x57 Mauser. Given the volume of .308 brass that I have, I would THINK that the .243 Winchester would be a better choice, FOR ME, as would a .358 Winchester on the larger-bore end of the spectrum.
    Still in all, shooting a light, accurate .257(AI?) would be worth reforming some brass. If Savage, Mossberg, or Ruger marketed one of their "entry-level" polymer stocked bolt actions in .257 Roberts, I'd be hard pressed to "pass it by", especially at that price level.

    BTW, I have no problem with the .250 Savage nor the .25-06, either. It's my IMPRESSION that the Roberts might handle heavier projectiles better than the Savage, while using less propellant and retaining better barrel life than the .25-06. ALL of them probably have better performance and barrel lives than my not-yet-owned .243.
    Last edited by Kosh75287; 09-25-2022 at 03:55 PM.
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    The .257 A.I. is a incredibly efficient round. Knocks on the door of 25-06 velocity with a little less powder and report.
    If liars pants really did catch on fire, watching the news would be a lot more fun!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    eastbank, wow, you are absolutely correct. I mis-named the action because I have been working quite a bit lately with a 721 and that language just took over my memory of the Bob. Guess I'm getting too old and tired to remember all the details of my grandchildren. Thank you for helping me remember to proof read my comments. I also hope that the Bob will also forgive me.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check