My first Sharps

[marlinman93]

Just finished pulling bullets, and dumping powder on the last of the 150 loaded rounds that came with my Sharps! My kinetic puller isn't large enough diameter to handle the base and rim diameter of the big .50, so had to scratch my head to come up with a solution. I found in my nut and bolt bins a 1/2" washer that was just large enough for the cartridges to slide down to the rim. I took the collet out of the bullet puller, and screwed the threaded cap back on. Then just dropped the cartridge and washer onto the puller. It had just enough friction to drag on the case diameter, and keep it from popping out during the hammering process. (most the time!) I did have a couple cases that went flying when the hammer hit my vise, but didn't go far.
I tried a few empty cases here and there to see if any primers went bang, but none did. So next they'll get deprimed and then work up new loads for the Sharps.

Had the set trigger screw fail on my Gove underlever Rolling Block at the same shoot. It stopped setting, and when I tried to adjust the screw the head broke off! Fortunately the threads stayed with the head, and just the tiny tip broke. It had rusted into the trigger, and so badly I had to drill the pin out to be able to punch it. Have a new adjustment screw coming from Numrich, so should be fixed before I want to shoot it again. I kept shooting after it broke, just unset. It's about 4 lbs. when not set vs. ounces once it's set.

[firefly1957]

I can not believe I have not seen this thread before you have a beautiful rifle there and seem to be enjoying it well !

I ordered a Sharps Shilo 50-3 1/4" in 1985 really like the rifle recoil is a bit much with full loads . I do use a past recoil pad .

[Chill Wills]

A few questions. I think the Freund Bros. were in Denver by 1873. Were they in Cheyenne by 1880 when they might of had your rifle? Gove and Lower shared a shop for 3 years until 1875. Both Gove and Freund had shops on Blake St. After, Lower was on his own in his store on Larimer St. and was called Sportsman's Depot. Early Denver had a rich history of rifle makers and retail gun shops.

BTW- the pictures of your rifle look great.

[marlinman93]

A few questions. I think the Freund Bros. were in Denver by 1873. Were they in Cheyenne by 1880 when they might of had your rifle? Gove and Lower shared a shop for 3 years until 1875. Both Gove and Freund had shops on Blake St. After, Lower was on his own in his store on Larimer St. and was called Sportsman's Depot. Early Denver had a rich history of rifle makers and retail gun shops.

BTW- the pictures of your rifle look great.

Your timeline is a little off, but only in details. The Freund Bros. first arrived in Cheyenne, Wy. in 1867, after following the Union Pacific RR out. They actually headed to Cheyenne two months before the railroad got there to get set up, and prepared for the arrival of the UP in November 1867.
In 1868 the brothers had opened shops in Dale City, and Laramie City, Dakota Territory that were temporary shops they traveled to make repairs or sell guns on occasion.
In October of 1868 they opened another shop in Bear City, Wy. to make repairs and sell., and in 1869 the brothers established a shop in Salt Lake City; the first shop they setup that didn't follow the UP's route!
They continued to be nomadic in their choices of temporary shops, and used Cheyenne as their home base. But in fall of 1869 they had stopped in Denver on a trip, and decided Denver might be a place to setup another shop. At that time there weren't all the gun shops and gunsmiths that later years brought to Denver, so it likely seemed like a good idea. But by May of 1875 they'd decided to sell their shop on Blake St. to JP Lower, and returned to their Cheyenne shop. Ballantine actually states that the Freund shop was sold to JP Lower prior to Lower and Gove becoming partners. So Gove became part owner of the Sportsman's Depot only after partnering with Lower later that year. No reason given for the sale, but I think it was likely there was just not enough work by then to keep the two brothers going in Denver.
Cheyenne continued to be the Freund's main base, until both brothers married the two sisters, and George and Frank chose to split up. That split was amicable, with George deciding that a move to Durango, Co. would be better, since there was no competition anywhere close and all gunsmithing work would come to him, with Denver being far enough away to not be an influence to his business. That was in 1880, and George stayed in Durango until his death, while Frank eventually sold out in Cheyenne after his wife wanted to move back East in summer of 1885. They ended up in New Jersey after Frank was bilked out of all his money by two "real estate" investors who took his money to develop land and disappeared.

It's my understanding that the Gove-Lower partnership started to give both men more buying power, as both had existing shops before the partnership, and after. I never understood that partnership since Gove was the wealthiest man in Denver, and certainly didn't gain as much partnering with Lower, as Lower gained from Gove?

[Chill Wills]

Thanks. Good info. I never followed their history too closely as Sharps rifles never have been much more than a passing interest. So, if I read you post correctly, if your rifle dates to them in 1880, it would have been only Frank in Cheyenne that worked over your rifle?

BTW - we spent a little time talking in Greeley in May. Chauncey pointed out you had a table.

[marlinman93]

Thanks. Good info. I never followed their history too closely as Sharps rifles never have been much more than a passing interest. So, if I read you post correctly, if your rifle dates to them in 1880, it would have been only Frank in Cheyenne that worked over your rifle?

BTW - we spent a little time talking in Greeley in May. Chauncey pointed out you had a table.

No, since my Sharps has George Freund's Durango, Co. stamp it was only George who reworked my Sharps. Which actually makes more sense being sold to Gove in Denver in Feb. 1880, and George moving to Durango, Co. where he was closer to Denver than Frank was to Denver. Or maybe whoever bought my Sharps from Gove was closer to Durango than Cheyenne. Whatever the reason it doesn't have Freund Bros. stamp, and has George Freund's stamp.
I have never been a Sharps fan either, as my love is Marlin Ballard rifles, and Remington Single Shot rifles. But all the things about a Sharps that turned me off to them are things the Freund Improvements changed, so it made this Sharps very appealing to me. Not to mention my friend sold it to me cheaper than a new Shiloh or Pedersoli cost.

[Chill Wills]

You had written in the first post #1: "Just purchased my first Sharps rifle. As a pretty diehard Ballard and Rolling Block collector/shooter, I never contemplated a Sharps. But this rifle was offered to me and after examining it closely, I discovered the restoration was done on a Freund Bros. marked action!"


So that is where the confusion comes from. Like I say, I haven't followed the Sharps history to any extent.

Dave Carter was in Greeley at the Colorado Collectors Assoc. and would be a good person to show it off to. I have held one of his very nice Freund modified Sharps.

Got it!!!!
Okay! I think I got my Sharps fix for the year.

[marlinman93]

You had written in the first post #1: "Just purchased my first Sharps rifle. As a pretty diehard Ballard and Rolling Block collector/shooter, I never contemplated a Sharps. But this rifle was offered to me and after examining it closely, I discovered the restoration was done on a Freund Bros. marked action!"


So that is where the confusion comes from. Like I say, I haven't followed the Sharps history to any extent.

Dave Carter was in Greeley at the Colorado Collectors Assoc. and would be a good person to show it off to. I have held one of his very nice Freund modified Sharps.

Got it!!!!
Okay! I think I got my Sharps fix for the year.

David Carter and Mike Rector were both at our OAC 2 day collector show here in August, and Mike had stopped by my display to look at my Freund Sharps. He took me and the Sharps back to their table for David and he to look it over, and tell me more about it.
My reference to "Freund Bros." early on is because these rifles were a joint effort of design by both brothers, so regardless which of them built the actions, or if both of them built them, they're still a Freund Bros. improved Sharps, just a question of whether it was Frank, George, or both doing the reworks.


Had a real surprise today with the Sharps. I had begun to reload cases and installed some primers just to check them out. Gave one a test and it failed to ignite. I've tried this lately a lot and new primers always worked, so I tore the action apart once again.
Once I removed the breech block I took apart the access plate that allows the transfer bar, and separate firing pin to be removed, and discovered a broken transfer bar!



Since this is a unique setup, I have limited options to fixing it. I ordered a new firing pin for a 1869/74 Sharps, which has a one piece firing pin/transfer bar; and a transfer bar without firing pin that's similar to the Freund from Dixie Gun Works for one of their Sharps replicas.
Hopefully one of these two can be reworked into something like the Freund system and work. If neither works, then I'll call my local friendly gunsmith and ask if he can tig weld this one back together? It's a tricky project, and I know he can do it, but only he can tell me if it can be done and be strong enough to last.

[Don McDowell]

Posted some possible places for you on the ASSRA.

[HWooldridge]

That break could very likely be brazed and put back into service.

[marlinman93]

That break could very likely be brazed and put back into service.

I don't think brazing will hold up to the way this transfers the strike from hammer to firing pin.

[marlinman93]

Posted some possible places for you on the ASSRA.

Thanks Don.
I'm also told the Shiloh Sharps uses a separate transfer bar and firing pin, and having a friend measure up his spare to see if it might be close enough? Sent a message to Shiloh also, and asked if I might be able to send my broken transfer bar to them for comparison?

[Don McDowell]

You might want to call Shiloh sometimes they’re sow on messages
I do know that slot of their parts will interchange with originals

[marlinman93]

You might want to call Shiloh sometimes they’re sow on messages
I do know that slot of their parts will interchange with originals

Steve Farringer sent me pictures of his spare Shiloh transfer bar, and it's much more robust than my Freund transfer bar! I'd guess it has plenty of excess material to remove and get it down to size, but not sure it might be as easy to make one from scratch vs. removing so much material?
I'll wait to see what Dixie sends me before getting the spare from Shiloh or Steve's spare. It's looking more like tig welding this one may be the best fix.

[Shawlerbrook]

Another beautiful gun and just love all the history.

[marlinman93]

Another beautiful gun and just love all the history.

Thanks! Hopefully it will be able to make smoke again, and I can resume load workup. Even if it's never a match rifle, I do want to shoot it on occasion.

[Yellowhouse]

Somewhere on a range up north they are going to wonder why all those careless weeds (Amaranth) appeared after Val showed up to shoot.

[marlinman93]

You might want to call Shiloh sometimes they’re sow on messages
I do know that slot of their parts will interchange with originals

Got a email reply from Lucinda telling me not to send the transfer bar, or breech block to them as she was worried about either possibly being lost or stolen and then not being able to replace them. She offered to sell me a Shiloh transfer bar, and said they'd gladly take it back if it didn't look usable. I could get Steve's spare Shiloh transfer bar if I need it, so I'll wait and see what Gordy does before pursuing that option.

[Rockindaddy]

Marlinman93: Enjoyed looking at your restored Sharps. I restored a fire damaged one several years ago. Your nice photos have inspired me to do some more work on my project. Was at the Charlotte, NC winter gun show. A guy brought in and displayed two full tables of guns from a house fire. There were some very nice old guns that had been damaged by fire. One was a No. 1 !874 Sharps sporter. The wood was still attached to the action. Asked the seller if I could look at it. His reply was, "I have some paper towels to wipe your hands". When I picked it up I cocked the hammer to see if the heat had annealed the mainspring. It felt good. So for $200 I bought this wreck. The seller wrapped it in brown paper and put it in a big plastic bag. For the next few months I refinished this cinder and made a new stock and forearm. The bore was beautiful! Chambered in 45-70 too. The barrel was pitted and rusty. Had to draw file and polish all the parts. Lost the barrel address and the OLD RELIABLE markings. Am an old tool and die maker. Found an original gun with a good address. Made a "smoke" of the address and made up a master. Engraved a wheel out of 01 die steel and sent it out to be heat treated. Put the new wheel in my roll marking press and rerolled the Bridgeport address and OLD RELIABLE markings. Was only able to rust blue the barrel and action. The old rifle shoots great with my cast boolits and handloads. Looking at your color case receiver now has inspired me to proceed with case coloring my parts and receiver. Many thanks for your inspirational photos.

[Rockindaddy]

I could repair that transfer bar for you. I have some really good high strength alloy that I would TIG weld in.