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Thread: My first Sharps

  1. #1
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    My first Sharps

    Just purchased my first Sharps rifle. As a pretty diehard Ballard and Rolling Block collector/shooter, I never contemplated a Sharps. But this rifle was offered to me and after examining it closely, I discovered the restoration was done on a Freund Bros. marked action! It has the Freund upgrades of dual extractors, camming breech block, and firing pin, and was done in a JP Gemmer style. The workmanship on the restoration is amazing, and really high grade wood. The chambering sure wasn't my first choice, as it's a .50-140, but it came with several hundred cases, 4 boxes of loaded ammo, and two molds for paper patch and grease groove bullets. So really a tough Sharps to pass up as my first one.
    I've been chatting with a friend who loads BP in his .500-450 Jeffries rifle and uses something called "amaranth seeds" as a filler over powder, and tells me his loads in the lighter Jeffries rifle are like .50-70 loads, so that should make shooting the big .50 manageable in this 15 lb. rifle.
    The restoration work on this Freund Sharps rifle was done by the late Bill VanHorne. His wife Emma did checkering, so the checkering work is hers. He was in Stout, Oh. and asume he's gone now.











    Freund stamp:






    The .50-140-678 gr. next to one of my .45-70-480 gr.
    Last edited by marlinman93; 09-27-2022 at 09:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    That should be fun!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Words escape me - wow…

    I would shoot a couple full charge loads just to say you did.

    And please let me know if you ever decide to sell it - I had to part with my Sharps rifles some years ago when my wife and I went through some hardships due to medical bills. Those times are past and I hope to rebuild some of my previous collection.

  4. #4
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    What a beautiful rifle!
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

    Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!

  5. #5
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    I too like Rolling Blocks, but I must say I would be tempted by that rifle.

    Robert

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Pretty snazzy, Vall! More than a tad envious here!

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Very nice. I had to look up the Freund mods.

    http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1946

    The Freund Improvements included a camming breechblock to seat the cartridge in the chamber, dual extractors to pull it back out, and a self-half-cocking hammer so you could just swing the lever without having to worry about breaking a firing pin. Freund's Wyoming Armory made these and other modifications to Sharps and other 19th century rifles. When Sharps ignored their pressure to incorporate Freund features in factory guns, they tooled up and built their own complete gun, the Wyoming Saddle Gun. But, unlike John Browning, they made very few and did not get any notice from a major manufacturer.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master



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    Mighty "Sharp" looking rifle.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Another great rifle Val, congratulations. I envy you the circles you move in.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I don’t have one of these rifles yet. It’s on my bucket list.

  11. #11
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    Very, very nice!

    Do you intend to shoot it? Many folks buy something like that and then decide it's too valuable to shoot.

    Years ago I shot three rounds thru a friends 50-140 loaded with heavy bullets, something like 700 grains, and decided that it was too much horse for me to ride. I suspect it would be a much more pleasant experience with a lighter, say 500 something weight bullet.

    Again, very nice.
    BIG OR SMALL I LIKE THEM ALL, 577 TO 22 HORNET.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    This rifle has all the Freund Improvements, except the self cocking hammer, which from what I've read was a great improvement, but also read it was not a good looking improvement. So maybe the owner didn't want that option?
    The stamp on the left side of the receiver is a stamp used by George Freund, which is unusual as the brothers split up in 1881, and each ran their own shop. The Freund book states it was a very amicable split, so they moved to different towns to avoid competing. But they continued to do the same improvements to Sharps rifles at each shop.
    The Freund Bros. had about 8-10 shops as they followed the Union Pacific RR West. All but the last couple were just tent shops set up in RR camps to provide gun work for employees, and others following the UPRR. The Wyoming shop was the exception, as they knew where the UPRR was headed, and pulled up stakes and moved there two months before the UPRR arrival. They bought a building, and were ready for business when the RR arrived.

    I definitely intend to shoot this rifle! I shoot everything in my collection, but just take care when shooting them. I'm not sure I'll shoot even one of the very heavy loads that came with the gun though. The thought of recoil with a 678 gr. bullet leaving the muzzle at 1500 fps is not appealing to me, even in an extremely heavy rifle like this Sharps. I will likely cast some of the bullets in the molds provided that appear to be around 400-425 grs., and then build up reduced charges around 1350 fps to shoot. At that level I can shoot all day long, and not end up with recoil flinch.

  13. #13
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    John in PA's Avatar
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    That's a beauty, and a terrific find. I agree the caliber is rough, but with light bullets, and maybe a lighter charge with a longer wad column, I bet it will be manageable. How much of the gun is original to Freund and Sharps Rifle Co?
    John Wells in PA

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  14. #14
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John in PA View Post
    That's a beauty, and a terrific find. I agree the caliber is rough, but with light bullets, and maybe a lighter charge with a longer wad column, I bet it will be manageable. How much of the gun is original to Freund and Sharps Rifle Co?
    The entire action for sure. Wood is all new, replaced 40 years ago. Barrel is unknown, but even Freund Bros. rarely replaced Sharps barrels.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Slugged the bore today and it's a .510" groove. I ordered a .512" sizing die for my lubrisizer, and will cast up the grease groove bullets to see what they drop at. Looked at C&H4D die sets, which I really love, and the .50-140 set is $247. I can buy just the sizing die for $150, and use my .50-70 dies to bell cases, neck size, and seat bullets if I want to save some on the whole set. I may try all my brass to see how it fits the chamber of the Sharps first, and if it fits I'll try loading a couple boxes of ammo and give that a try to begin with.
    Ordered the Aramanth seed for filler also, so I'll get things ready while I wait on the seeds.
    I stumbled across an old auction for an 1874 Sharps today. The serial number was one number lower than mine, and the letter stated it was shipped to the Carlos Gove Gun Shop in Denver, Co. in February 1880. I believe that's the first year the .50-140 was introduced, and guessing my Sharps likely shipped the same day, but unknown where it went yet. Can't seem to get anyone to answer the phone at Dr. Labowski's who has the Sharps records.
    Last edited by marlinman93; 09-27-2022 at 10:00 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub Mikedominick's Avatar
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    I had a 50-140 Shiloh LRE back in the mid 80s, I just used the 50-70 dies and had Tom Ballard make up a PP mold around 620 grains. I wish brass was as plentiful as it was back then for all the Sharps specific calibers.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikedominick View Post
    I had a 50-140 Shiloh LRE back in the mid 80s, I just used the 50-70 dies and had Tom Ballard make up a PP mold around 620 grains. I wish brass was as plentiful as it was back then for all the Sharps specific calibers.
    Brass at one point when we had Jamison, Bell, Bertram, and RMC all going, was great! Not cheap, but at least available. Anymore I wont buy an old gun in a cartridge chambering I can't buy brass for. Had this one not had so much brass, I would have passed. In fact I did pass until he told me he'd give me a "lifetime supply of brass". And he sent me an email this morning telling me he found more to give me the next trip over!

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub Mikedominick's Avatar
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    I remember I shot the Bell brass in my 50-140, I looked at my 1993 era 50-90 brass and it has either Shiloh or C Sharps head stamps. I just bought a box of loaded 50-90 from BACO to get the brass, it's Starline, which I've never used in anything before.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikedominick View Post
    I remember I shot the Bell brass in my 50-140, I looked at my 1993 era 50-90 brass and it has either Shiloh or C Sharps head stamps. I just bought a box of loaded 50-90 from BACO to get the brass, it's Starline, which I've never used in anything before.
    .50-90 seems to be far more readily available than .50-140 brass. There are more sources for it, and some actually still have it in stock. I'd rather this was a .50-90, but I can't complain or change what it is, so I'll make this work.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    .50-90 seems to be far more readily available than .50-140 brass. There are more sources for it, and some actually still have it in stock. I'd rather this was a .50-90, but I can't complain or change what it is, so I'll make this work.
    Some of Elmer Keith’s writings are related to large bore Sharps loads. I seem to recall he claimed most were chambered tight, and fired cases didn’t need sizing when using black powder. I had the same experience with my Sharps guns - all I did after shooting was to thoroughly wash the brass and deprime. Reloading consisted of normal BP practice then I just pushed the bullets into the cases with thumb pressure. I always loaded a duplex charge with 6.0 grs of Red Dot under 60 grs BP in my 45-70 rifles.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check