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Thread: Is there a source of cap and ball revolver that work right out of the box perfectly?

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy Brokenbear's Avatar
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    OP I think you have to remember that a lot of the ups and downs from a production vs quality problems stand point have been exasperated by the loss of skilled armorers to Covid the last 18 months ..additionally wheel guns world over are still hand fitted and finished so loss of hands on skill for wheel guns is particularly hurtful
    With that said I will say that I do believe that Taylor's Firearms issued Uberti's whether it is thru a dealer of Taylor's or from Taylor's themselves.. are of a better level of "effort" than a plain brown box Uberti
    I would also suspect the same could maybe be said of Cimmaron issued Uberti's but having never had a Cimmaron Uberti I cannot say
    I can say that I know for a fact that Taylor's has on staff full time armorers and will stand behind the product 100%
    How do I know this was.. as a new shooter I was unaware pieces of percussion caps could and do occasionally enter the interior of a cap n ball and i had it happen my first outing locking up the 1860 Colt Army ..I bought the Uberti from one of Taylor's dealers and he had me call Taylor's ..
    They sent a shipping label and turned the gun around in 2 days and the armorer wrote me a nice note saying "no charge" but included i a little clear plastic baggie with a chunk of percussion cap as my problem and a kind suggestion to disassemble for preventive maintenance from time to time ..
    SO my best advice to you is if you want a product I KNOW is backed with based in the USA talent and action find yourself a Taylor's Cap n Ball pistol
    Understand I am not saying there are not others who may be able to do the same but I can vouch for Taylor's

    Bear

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy
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    The only guns to give me problems are all older imports. I will not say that the new gun will need work or that it won't, it is just the luck of the draw. I have shot Colt style open tops for about 65 years, have 20 sum now. I have never seen the need for a cap guard. I can not remember a cap falling in the action causing the hammer to give a light strake and not one of my guns have cap guards. A too light hammer spring is the reason for cap guards. All my guns have the hammer spring lighted some but the cap stays at the nipple. Some needed timed but not many. Most gunsmithing work done on C&B guns just puts money in the smiths pocket. I would say 70 % of the people having the action slicked up can't tell the difference from a factory action and a very good action job. If you are competing with C&B I know you want the lightest hammer spring that can set a cap of mandating the use of cap guards, that is a compition not working gun. You will not see a cap guard on most C&B pistols made by Sam Colt, yes a few are out there but not many. I think they were used by the Manhattan Pistol Co. to speed up delivery to Uncle during the 1860's.

  3. #23
    https://www.longhunt.com/web/index.p...n-black-powder

    If you give Jim a call he will make you a perfectly running precision cap and ball revolver.

    I have a 61 Navy in the mail right now. If you want to be a precision shooter with these there's a very specific way to load them that is different than anything else you've most likely seen. Done correctly you'll be shocked at how accurate these guns can be.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by warren5421 View Post
    The only guns to give me problems are all older imports. I will not say that the new gun will need work or that it won't, it is just the luck of the draw. I have shot Colt style open tops for about 65 years, have 20 sum now. I have never seen the need for a cap guard. I can not remember a cap falling in the action causing the hammer to give a light strake and not one of my guns have cap guards. A too light hammer spring is the reason for cap guards. All my guns have the hammer spring lighted some but the cap stays at the nipple. Some needed timed but not many. Most gunsmithing work done on C&B guns just puts money in the smiths pocket. I would say 70 % of the people having the action slicked up can't tell the difference from a factory action and a very good action job. If you are competing with C&B I know you want the lightest hammer spring that can set a cap of mandating the use of cap guards, that is a compition not working gun. You will not see a cap guard on most C&B pistols made by Sam Colt, yes a few are out there but not many. I think they were used by the Manhattan Pistol Co. to speed up delivery to Uncle during the 1860's.
    Not quite, hammer spring tension really is not responsible for cap jams, its the face of the hammer with that neat little notch cut in it that pulls a cap off, referred to as cap sucking, and drops the thing into that gap in the hammer slot causing the gun to jam. Adding a cap post cuts that down by a substantial amount, adding an action shield ensures it wont get into the lock works. Having been into a good number of Uberti pistols I can say that they start the tuning process but don't finish it, plus Uberti still has the short arbor, it doesn't matter if it came from Taylors or some place else. On the tuning part, so far everyone I've done a pistol for has commented on what difference it makes on how smooth the action is. Whether or not they can shoot the difference remains to be seen.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    My original Colt 1860 has a machined half-round groove in the recoil shield that allows cap fragments to move out of the way when the piece is cocked after a shot. I don’t own any modern C&B’s anymore and cannot recall if the ones I previously had possessed that feature or not.

    If I recall correctly, the 1860 was the last, or one of the last, revolvers that Sam Colt helped design and by that time, he had over twenty years experience with field successes and failures. I have always held to the notion that the Italians should have copied every feature of the later percussion guns so we could realize what modern materials could do with a highly developed period design, but they only went so far and stopped. These guns are essentially toys now and some of the nuances are lost.

  6. #26
    If you order from the link I posted they can install their anti jam system.


    Jim tells me the originals had this shelf. I'm not sure if that's true but he claims 100% reliability.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by HWooldridge View Post
    My original Colt 1860 has a machined half-round groove in the recoil shield that allows cap fragments to move out of the way when the piece is cocked after a shot. I don’t own any modern C&B’s anymore and cannot recall if the ones I previously had possessed that feature or not.

    If I recall correctly, the 1860 was the last, or one of the last, revolvers that Sam Colt helped design and by that time, he had over twenty years experience with field successes and failures. I have always held to the notion that the Italians should have copied every feature of the later percussion guns so we could realize what modern materials could do with a highly developed period design, but they only went so far and stopped. These guns are essentially toys now and some of the nuances are lost.
    The replica 1860 has a groove that acts as a channel to help guide cap fragments away fron the hammer slot in the frame. However it's not fool proof and the hammer can still pull a cap off and neatly drop it into the lock work causing a jam. I have seen the cap fence in pictures as shown here but can see why its not a real popular fix. Some guys point the barrel up during cocking and then roll the pistol to the right to drop any loose cap pieces out of the groove. As stated before a cap post and action shield are gonna get you close to 100% reliability against cap jams. It's a win win scenario especially when it's included in the cost of tuning the pistol.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackrabbit1957 View Post
    The replica 1860 has a groove that acts as a channel to help guide cap fragments away fron the hammer slot in the frame. However it's not fool proof and the hammer can still pull a cap off and neatly drop it into the lock work causing a jam. I have seen the cap fence in pictures as shown here but can see why its not a real popular fix. Some guys point the barrel up during cocking and then roll the pistol to the right to drop any loose cap pieces out of the groove. As stated before a cap post and action shield are gonna get you close to 100% reliability against cap jams. It's a win win scenario especially when it's included in the cost of tuning the pistol.
    Good to know. It’s been over 40 years since I owned a modern replica and I was going on memory. I do recall my 1858 Remington replica from Dixie didn’t seem to cap-jam very often, if at all - but the Colt would occasionally do it. The Remington also held more powder and was more accurate; it just didn’t point as naturally as the
    Colt, which truly “points like your finger”.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Currently all of the Italian clones are under the Beretta umbrella. QC has most certainly improved since 2015 or so when they were aquired .

    I have a 1978 brass 1858 Pietta . I guess I've had it about 10 years. When I got it the nipples were hammered, the hammer was so beat up it was dragging on the frame and the base pin was stuck . The barrel is .440.426 with .448 chambers . The cylinder face looked like it had been used to drive fence posts . A little stoning , new nipples , and peening fixed all of that . The chambers ran from .442-.448 . The sights were pretty good for 25 gr of FFFg and 32 FFg with a .454 . I did break a trigger return spring in it .

    I've had 4 1860's . A 3 Piettas and an ASM . The ASM was a basket case "pimp" gun with parts missing and was probably robbed for those parts for another sometime in the 4-5 owners before me .
    The cap rake is essential. Aside from the caps falling in the hammer groove I can't say there was any particular issues I just couldn't warm up to the 60s . I still can't . I didn't have to fix anything in them except for the navy that had been pretty well abused before I got it ......that old saw it I'd known then , yep , one of those deals .

    I have kept a 2nd Model Dragoon ASM . In 200 odd rounds it hasn't had any undesirable actions save for a couple of cap jams . Fortunately the robust clock works just chew up the caps and go on with business.

    I will second sending them the 45 Dragoon . I've had the opportunity to shoot several reworked by him and there's just no comparison to box stock . He offers or had planned to offer a few modernizations for them to make them smoother and more reliable.

    Stock out of the box reliable unfondled I don't have any suggestions.
    Pay more get more I guess .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  10. #30
    I know I sound like a broken record, fix the arbor on that ASM if you haven't already. Any one of these revolvers can be improved on right outta the box. 45 Dragoon is a great guy and a great tuner, only trouble is he's backed up for quite some time.I too offer tuning and repairs. Mr Dragoon has been a great mentor to me and he's always willing to share advise and different ideas and techniques.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check