Soft Recoil, Good Power, .357Mag Powder

[justindad]

So I have a .357Mag revolver with a 3” barrel, hardwood grip, weighing 25 oz. The barrel is not high on the grip, so recoil is straight into my hand with very little muzzle flip. Sights are set for .357Mag ammo and I like that. I have three bullet molds I can use: NOE 369-160-WFN, NOE 358-124-TC, Lyman 358439 (my cylinder is longer enough to use the crimp groove, which I prefer).
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My main load is NOE 360-160-WFN over 13.6 grains of Enforcer. This will not be fun to shoot when it gets to be 30 degrees outside, so I’m looking for a softer load.
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I tried somewhere around 10.5 grains of Accurate #7 under the 158 grain bullet - that hit hard, and even deformed my primers more than usual. I went as low as 7.3 grains of True Blue under the 158 grain bullet, and that had a very sharp recoil making it just as painful as the full Enforcer load. True Blue under the 124 grain bullet wasn’t different, but was much louder (which I like). Last, I tried 7.5 and 7.0 grains of Unique under the 124 grain bullet - that was comfortable.
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The bad thing about these lighter True Blue and Unique loads is that they shoot very low, so come winter I plan to work the Unique load up as high as I can withstand in freezing temperatures. The other problem with Unique is that it mixed with my Felix lube to produce mud around my cylinder, although other powders were in that mud.
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I will describe Unique and Enforcer as having light-for-velocity recoil. I will describe True Blue and A#7 as having heavy-for-velocity recoil.
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Are there any other powders that have soft-for-velocity recoil, that don’t produce so much soot?

[Targa]

I use Win231/HP38 and Universal for my light .357 loads. They work well enough for me that I don’t care to try anything else but I don’t know how they would compare to the ones you listed for soot.

[ABJ]

With 357 cases when I want a lighter recoil I start with 700X and Red Dot, but they don't give a high velocity but I am not chasing a specific speed when doing this just something a little heavier/faster than a 38 special. Unique in the 5.0 plus a little using 158 to 165 bullets seems to be an accurate load and recoil is moderate but I have no idea of velocity. I suspect it is well under 1000. I have used Blue Dot under a gas checked 158 and accuracy started getting good around 8.5 but recoil was climbing up. Top end Blue Dot loads is the most accurate I have tested but the recoil is not punishing but a little more than I want to shoot one handed in a four inch barrel.
Tony

[charlie b]

My younger years I shot .357mag a lot. Heavier bullets gave a different 'push' than lighter bullets, when loaded at full power. 158gn seemed to give a harder push, 140gn was sharper, 125gn to me was the 'least'.

If I loaded up a 140gn bullet with three different powders that produced the same muzzle velocities, I could not tell the difference in recoil.

What I did notice was the dirty powders. 2400 was one of those for me. IIRC, most of my loads ended up being Unique or Blue Dot. Later on I used a lot of AA7 just because it metered better. I never tried WW296 for some reason.

For 'light' or 'moderate' loads I used the starting loads in the manuals or .38+P loads. Caution, some ball powders do not like to be downloaded and will produce erratic results.

[Winger Ed.]

The slower the powder, the longer the pressure curve will be, and they'll feel more like a push than a sharp hammer blow.
As short as handgun barrels are, there isn't much to work with as far as getting boolit moving and the speed up.
I wouldn't expect any huge difference no matter which powder you use with a given boolit.

If recoil is a issue, it's easier to reduce it with lighter boolits, and/or slowing down the muzzle velocity.

Back in my 6" S&W revolver days, I found myself always coming back to Blue Dot.

[winelover]

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I tried somewhere around 10.5 grains of Accurate #7 under the 158 grain bullet - that hit hard, and even deformed my primers more than usual.

Are there any other powders that have soft-for-velocity recoil, that don’t produce so much soot?

I tried that very same load in my 20 ounce 357 LCR. That is a maximum load and pretty stiff in a lightweight revolver. Nine grains, in 357 brass, is much more accurate and easier on the hand as well as the gun. Shoots to POA in the fix sighted 2" barreled LCR.

I don't consider Unique or 2400 a dirty powder. Certainly, no mud build up on cylinder face. I use conventional lubed bullets...........Carnauba Red, is my preference. No PC-ing for me. With a 158 grain bullet in 357 length brass , 6.5 grains of Unique (Lyman's Cast Bullet Manual minimum loading) shoots to POA and is moderately recoiling. Twelve and a half grains of 2400 does about the same in magnum brass.

I use W231 or Red Dot (4.9 & 5.0 grains, respectively) in the LCR for light to moderate loads with 158 grain bullets in 357 length brass.

Normally, stick to 158 grain bullets in a fixed sighted short barrels. Most guns are regulated for than nominal standard weight.

I have shot Lyman's 120 TC 9mm bullet in the LCR. Taper crimped with optional RCBS TC 357 die...........7.2 grains of Unique(357 length brass) is very accurate with that lightweight bullet. Shoots a little higher in my LCR at 7 yards but can cover a 10 shot group with a quarter.............using the Crimson Trace Laser grips.

Not much into the newer powders. Although, I have tried Power Pistol at 8.5 grains (Alliant lists this load with a 158 jacketed GDHP) with 158 cast bullet in magnum brass. Shoots to POA in the LCR and is snappy but accurate.

These are my results, with my revolver and my reloading techniques. Work up loads in your guns, according to safe reloading practices...........including book/manual verification. Stay safe.


Winelover

[robg]

7gn true blue is a good medium load

[nueces5]

I usually use a 2-inch taurus and very light
with which it is not pleasant to shoot very strong charges
One day I started using the dillon 550 with win 231 4.4 grains, which was what I was using in my 9mm, with some 113 wc boolits it turned out to be a very nice and precise shot to make nice round holes in the target, and I can stay shooting all afternoon without my hand hurting
moving up the ladder, I use longshot 7 grains with the same boolit
and if i want some spiciness 14 grains of H2400 in a 158 grain jword
although I get the impression that much of this gunpowder burns outside the barrel

[justindad]

I made some new rounds with 7.8 grains Unique under the 124 grain boolit and compared them to old ammo that used 7.5 grains of True Blue under the 158 grain boolit - they felt the same to me. The True Blue rounds don’t hurt anymore.
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Looks like my hand is getting tougher as I try different powders, so my thoughts on stiff/soft recoil all have to be re-thought.
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I have a few 124 grain rounds with 8.0 grains of Longshot. Let’s see how that goes…

[AlaskaMike]

BE-86 and Power Pistol are both extremely clean burning, and work beautifully in midrange .357 loads.

For even lighter loads, Clays also is very good.

I definitely agree with sticking to 158 grain bullets, or close to that weight for a fixed sight revolver.

[justindad]

I came very close to buying some BE-86. The main thing that stopped me is limited load data, and the bullets I shoot with do not closely match what is in load manuals. The second thing is a few comments on another forum about the recoil of BE-86 getting surprisingly stiff as you get into the upper range of charge.

[crandall crank]

I'll have to agree with the HP38/WIN 231 powder. For me, it's hard to beat in either the 38 spl or the 357 mag. Plus it works well in a multitude of other cartridges.

[Divil]

Look at Winchester 244 & 572.

[Multra]

Lighter bullets and/or rubber grips.

[MT Gianni]

IME, recoil is more dependent on bullet weight than velocity.

[anothernewb]

4.3 grains of 231 under a 158 might very well get you what you're looking for. on my fixed sight revolvers, they are close enough at 50 feet that it's irrelevant. (for me anyway)