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Thread: Paypal Regular v F&F

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


    Nueces's Avatar
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    Paypal Regular v F&F

    Iím a frequent purchaser on Swappin & Sellin here and I prefer to use paypal. I donít use friends and family though, just the regular transaction, from which paypal deducts fees on the sellerís end. In appreciation for sellers here allowing paypal payments, I always offer to pay those fees.

    When the seller gets his money, paypal charges a fee of 2.9%, then tacks on another $0.30. I reverse this to make my calculation. Hereís how the calculation goes.

    Say the seller wants $79.50 for his item. In order for him to receive just that amount, I add $0.30 to get $79.80. Then I divide that by 0.971 (same as 100% minus 2.9%) to get $82.18, the amount I pay on my end.

    This works for US transactions, not involving foreign currency. I thought yíall might want to see the process. It's slightly more cumbersome that simply adding 3%, but it's accurate to the penny.

  2. #2
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    That's interesting, Nueces. Up until about 4 years ago I had no idea what PayPal was all about, until I too wanted to buy something on this Forum and PayPal was all the seller would accept. I decided to try it and just did the regular transaction thing, having started from knowing nothing about it. The seller came unglued and refused to ship the item (I think it was brass) as he said having to pay the transaction fee cut into his already-narrow profit. I apologized, and did the F&F thing. Since then, having become much more educated about PayPal I've learned that they are "woke" and truly anti-gun. There are all sorts of stories about gun-related transactions being cancelled by PayPal and users having a very difficult time getting them to release the money. They are also plagued with ethical and moral problems, but this is not the place to go into detail on that. I will only use them as a last resort, if no other form of payment is accepted, and then I think twice about it. "Stuff" (like brass, etc.) has a way of turning up again from other sellers.

    DG

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy GoodAlloy's Avatar
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    Agree with Der comments. However people want convenience and PayPal provides that. But I definitely agree it Would be great to have more 2nd amendment, friendly methods to make payments through. It is actually very needed.

    FYI
    Starting this year IRS will be collecting tax on any payments into your PayPal account. “Payments” are considered earned income unless they are personal from “friends & family”.
    Tax will be collected on the entire payment value not necessarily any profit that one may have made or not made.

    Knowing all of this makes a seller very aware of the difference between a purchase and a friends and family payment. Most all of us on this site that sell items are not making any profit, Just recuperating what may have been paid for something when purchased while passing it along.
    Last edited by GoodAlloy; 09-18-2022 at 01:00 PM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master beezapilot's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=GoodAlloy;5460336]FYI
    Starting this year IRS will be collecting tax on any payments into your PayPal account.

    Ditto with E Bay, and an accountant acquaintance of mine down town mentioned that with an Ebay account once they link an SSN to an account they will proceed with sales from previous years as income.
    The essence of education is self reliance- T.H. White.

    Currently seeking wood carving tools, wood planes, froes, scorps, spokeshaves... etc....

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yeah with the IRS sticking their nose in I am not sure that PayPal will last. I don't sell as a general rule but if I did it would be USPMO only. Starting around 2023 I bet the amount of hobby sellers accepting e-type payments will go down dramatically.

  6. 09-18-2022, 01:02 PM
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  7. #6
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    Another thing is “friends and family” does not offer the same protections as the normal paypal as far as recouping your money should your transaction go bad. If it is someone I trust, then I use friends and family.
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  8. #7
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by GlocksareGood View Post
    Yeah with the IRS sticking their nose in I am not sure that PayPal will last. I don't sell as a general rule but if I did it would be USPMO only. Starting around 2023 I bet the amount of hobby sellers accepting e-type payments will go down dramatically.
    I guess I am the total opposite. If a USPMO is the only form accepted I won't even think about buying.

  9. #8
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finster101 View Post
    I guess I am the total opposite. If a USPMO is the only form accepted I won't even think about buying.
    Yeah, for USPS money orders, I always get stuck in an hour long line. And it moves at the speed of government bureaucracy.

    Now if I could buy postal money orders online and have them sent directly to someone, I'd do that.

  10. #9
    Boolit Master


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    I have heard these stories about paypal for years but have never had a moment's trouble with them, despite using paypal for a great many firearms related transactions (usually as a buyer, not seller), including on ebay. I also use paypal on commercial sites, if available, instead of entering my credit card information. That reduces the risk of exposure and loss of the card due to site hacking. USPS MOs are a considerable burden, as related above, and I generally won't use them. I'm happy to mail a check and await clearance.

    Paypal regular provides protection for the buyer and gives the seller the buyer's address, along with reduced cost mailing options, none of which come with the F&F option. But, the world is changing. I'll change, too, whatever is necessary.

  11. #10
    Boolit Master
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    A postal MO does offer some protection to the Buyer. Most people don't realize that the stub you save is Proof of Purchase . If you get stiffed , You can Open a Claim. The PO is obligated By federal law to investigate. They can send a agent to That address.
    NRA Endowment Member
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  12. 09-18-2022, 02:30 PM
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  13. #11
    Boolit Man
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    paypal problems and advantages

    I have used paypal many times. All times it worked fine except the last time.
    Last I used it they took my money and then would not pay the seller.
    I finally paid the seller otherwise. I was out for 2 times the money for a while.

    It took several days to get my money back.
    Lots of emails and online chats to make that work.
    I never understood the problem. I do not believe that who I talked to understood the problem.

    I like to get the delivery faster is why I have used it so often.

    I am hesitant to try again.

    PMO takes time which I do not have much of, to go to the post office and cost for the PMO and the gas.

    Checks are faster to mail take but take some time mailing and clearing.
    Thanks
    HawkEye

  14. 09-18-2022, 03:27 PM
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  15. 09-18-2022, 03:43 PM
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  16. 09-18-2022, 04:11 PM
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  17. #12
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finster101 View Post
    I guess I am the total opposite. If a USPMO is the only form accepted I won't even think about buying.
    Agreed. Unless a seller is willing to accept electronic payment, I'm not buying. I'm not driving all the way to the Post Office and standing in line for who knows how long just to buy some small item. I can't believe how many folks want to use a service but are too cheap to pay the small fee. I will add the % to a purchase without being ask when buying and don't ever ask for F&F when selling. If you use the service, pay the fee. Gp

  18. #13
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by salpal48 View Post
    A postal MO does offer some protection to the Buyer. Most people don't realize that the stub you save is Proof of Purchase . If you get stiffed , You can Open a Claim. The PO is obligated By federal law to investigate. They can send a agent to That address.
    That is the claim but reality is the USPS does nothing and again reality is you have zero protections. Even on a lost in the mail MO it takes them forever. The claimed times are below but in my case it took over 9 months to get a refund for a MO per their own tracking they lost.

    https://www.usps.com/shop/money-orders.htm

    Replacing Lost, Stolen, or Damaged Money Orders
    Lost or Stolen Money Orders
    You cannot stop payment on postal money orders, but a lost or stolen money order can be replaced.
    Money order loss or theft may take up to 30 days to confirm.
    Investigating a money order's lost or stolen status may take up to 60 days.

    There is a $13.90 processing fee to replace a lost or stolen money order.
    Requesting a Refund
    Take your money order receipt to any Post Office location.
    Talk to a retail associate at the counter to start a Money Order Inquiry.
    After starting the inquiry, you will be able to check the status of your money order and inquiry progress by visiting the Money Orders Application.
    When your money order is confirmed lost or stolen, we’ll issue you a replacement money order.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  19. #14
    Boolit Master 4719dave's Avatar
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    The problem lies when you get a 1099 form from sales for items you’ve already paid taxes on !!! Ya that’s fair right . Guys who sell things to survive in life sometimes can’t afford taxes etc . But some have no worries in life ��Must be nice ! I have never got taken on cast boolits .eBay pp all of it takes advantage of things taxing shipping some have no clue about all the fees . There’s a lot of horse trading here which is great . Let’s keep it that way . Just my 2 cents
    Dave Biesenbach
    port charlotte fl

  20. #15
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    PayPal offers two methods of payment.

    Goods and Services
    Friends and Family (people you trust)


    Using Goods and Services will offer you the utmost protection. If you have a issue, paypal will freeze the account of the person you paid until they make it right.
    They do charge a minor fee to do payments using this method. In turn, they will also freeze your account if they think your doing anything against their policies.

    Using Friends and Family is just like using cash. No protection at all. Only use it if you are paying someone you trust or someone that has a good reputation.

    As mentioned above in other posts, the IRS changed the procedure on incoming funds to Paypal and other electronic payments.
    If your yearly total for Goods and Services equals $600 or more then they will issue you a 1099 (misc income).
    You will have to potentially pay taxes on that income.

    A lot of people stopped using PP because of that fact.
    I for one are one of those people that no longer accept G&S but will accept F&F.
    I never have had a issue with paying PP their fee and with the exception of panel sales, I never charged the customer the fee.

    Venmo, Zelle, Cashapp, and PP F&F are all considered cash transactions

    On the items I sell, I accept PP F&F, Venmo, Zelle, cash (yes green paper), personal check, bank check, and money order

  21. 09-18-2022, 06:33 PM
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  22. 09-18-2022, 06:42 PM
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  23. #16
    USPS MO is not fun these days. Good luck cashing one that is more than 100 before noon. Had 2 900 dollar USPS MO and took me weeks to cash. If they dont have the money in the drawer to cover it then you are SOL.

  24. #17
    Moderator Emeritus

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    Quote Originally Posted by HATCH View Post
    PayPal offers two methods of payment.

    Goods and Services
    Friends and Family (people you trust)


    Using Goods and Services will offer you the utmost protection. If you have a issue, paypal will freeze the account of the person you paid until they make it right.
    They do charge a minor fee to do payments using this method. In turn, they will also freeze your account if they think your doing anything against their policies.

    Using Friends and Family is just like using cash. No protection at all. Only use it if you are paying someone you trust or someone that has a good reputation.

    As mentioned above in other posts, the IRS changed the procedure on incoming funds to Paypal and other electronic payments.
    If your yearly total for Goods and Services equals $600 or more then they will issue you a 1099 (misc income).
    You will have to potentially pay taxes on that income.

    A lot of people stopped using PP because of that fact.
    I for one are one of those people that no longer accept G&S but will accept F&F.
    I never have had a issue with paying PP their fee and with the exception of panel sales, I never charged the customer the fee.

    Venmo, Zelle, Cashapp, and PP F&F are all considered cash transactions

    On the items I sell, I accept PP F&F, Venmo, Zelle, cash (yes green paper), personal check, bank check, and money order
    Perhaps (again) illustrating I'm definitely not the brightest bulb in the fixture -- I'm a tad confused re the "IRS connection". Who (the sender of funds OR the receiver of funds) with an annual total +/= $600.00 USD might receive the 1099- form?
    I personally am more than happy with PayPal; I've gotten 'stiffed' a few times on eBay, and they have -- every time -- refunded ALL my money sent within a very few minutes of my inquiry to them. No questions, no nags, Of course, they indicate they'd be doing an investigation and I'd be subject to a reversal should their findings indicate. But -- I endeavor to always be on the up-and-up, and PayPal has always treated me with respect.
    As an almost-cripple (bad leg) I do the bulk of my purchasing on line, and -- again -- use PayPal as my prime means of payment. Definitely MORE than the six hundred U S dollars per year you indicated. Note that I am solely a buyer -- sender of funds.
    Hence my question: Need *I* be "worried" (vis the Internal Revenue Service) in my using PayPal to pay for my purchases?
    Thanks.
    (dummie) geo.

  25. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    Perhaps (again) illustrating I'm definitely not the brightest bulb in the fixture -- I'm a tad confused re the "IRS connection". Who (the sender of funds OR the receiver of funds) with an annual total +/= $600.00 USD might receive the 1099- form?
    I personally am more than happy with PayPal; I've gotten 'stiffed' a few times on eBay, and they have -- every time -- refunded ALL my money sent within a very few minutes of my inquiry to them. No questions, no nags, Of course, they indicate they'd be doing an investigation and I'd be subject to a reversal should their findings indicate. But -- I endeavor to always be on the up-and-up, and PayPal has always treated me with respect.
    As an almost-cripple (bad leg) I do the bulk of my purchasing on line, and -- again -- use PayPal as my prime means of payment. Definitely MORE than the six hundred U S dollars per year you indicated. Note that I am solely a buyer -- sender of funds.
    Hence my question: Need *I* be "worried" (vis the Internal Revenue Service) in my using PayPal to pay for my purchases?
    Thanks.
    (dummie) geo.
    You will being receiving a 1099 if you receive more than $600 in year into your PayPal account. (from selling stuff)
    The laws changed a year or two ago because the DEMS put this legislation into the ONIMUS or passed on in a RECONCILIATION bill.

    Scott
    Scott

    You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them.

  26. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Save all your receipts from your initial purchases of the goods you are selling, as well as shipping costs, fees paid to paypal or others.
    Unless you are selling things for a living, then they are considered a capital gain, long or short term. Deduct your cost basis from the sales price, and that is what you will pay tax on.
    The biggest problem with the above is it worth the amount of time and effort required to do so? I would say it is. You may end up owing nothing, or the max capital gains tax is 28%. Its either that or pay it at your regular income tax rate.
    E-Bay etc. will send you a 1099 on sales over $600 as required by law, but you may still owe taxes on any amount less than that if there is a gain.

  27. #20
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by cat-mechanic View Post
    Yeah, for USPS money orders, I always get stuck in an hour long line. And it moves at the speed of government bureaucracy.

    Now if I could buy postal money orders online and have them sent directly to someone, I'd do that.
    My bank accepts them for deposit!

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