home repair question

[Battis]

130 yr old house. An 8 ft section of the sill (sits on top of foundation) is rotted and has to be replaced. I know I have to jack it up while I replace the sill. Can it be jacked from the basement or does it have to be jacked from the outsisde?

[crandall crank]

It's possible to do from the basement. You can use a small steel beam to span the joists. Be sure to use two jacks (one at each end of the beam). Go slow and make sure everything stays vertical. You don't want the lifting posts to "kick out"...that wouldn't be good

[Battis]

I'm waiting for a call from the mason/contractor that I use but I'm thinking that everyone's booked out quite aways. Two or three of the wall studs that come down to the sill are rotted on the bottom. Once I get the sill replaced, can these studs be "sistered" with new studs? The interior wall is horsehair plaster that's in good shape.

[contender1]

As noted, steel "I" beam, (2) or even (3) jacks. Go SLOW.
And it's possible to sister together studs,, if you have enough good wood to tie them together.

And once you get it fixed,, I'd consider leaving the steel I beam in place, and ADD support foundation to the beam.

But,,, when all else fails,, having a pro look at it is the best way to get a good idea of what needs to be done & how to do it correctly.

[country gent]

I would recommend screw jacks to raise it up and then lower onto solid posts while working under it. A jack can fail, a post and solid blocking is safer. I have watched them jack up buildings to move them and they used the screw jacks with stacks of blocking as soon as there was room a block was inserted in the stack. When up to height they put most of the load on the blocking not the jacks.

Another thing to check is the footer boards thickness that old thy are probably a full 2" or more even not the 1 1/2" sold today. You may have to build up or have custom cut.

[Battis]

Still wrapping my head around this project. With screw jacks, isn't all the weight on the threads?

[Scrounge]

Still wrapping my head around this project. With screw jacks, isn't all the weight on the threads?

Yes, but threads are pretty strong. Most bolts and other threaded objects that break do so in sheer, not tension or compression. Which is why you use more than one jack, and they are rated for the load you're trying to lift. You don't want side-loads, and you don't want under-rated lifting gear.

https://www.tksimplex.com/en-sx/mech...-Jacks-Screw#v

Bill

[Battis]

I gave it a good look from inside and out. The floor joists in the basement run parallel to the rotted sill. The next joist over is only 6" away, so this rotted sill (rotted on the outside - that part in the basement is solid) basically supports the wall studs, not any of the floor. I know there's alot of weight on it still...

[Bmi48219]

Take the time now to think this project through. Plenty of online tutorials out there.
Is your 130 YO home on a field stone, cut stone or brick basement/ foundation? Or was the home moved at some point? CMUs and pour walls weren’t common back then. Don’t know about your area but often older houses had basements that were in essence deep crawl spaces. If your basement walls are stepped back a few feet above the floor, the basement was probably deepened some time after the house was built.
Is basement floor concrete? You can jack or support from the inside provided you have solid base for jacks/posts. If not sure of floor use 12” x 12” x 2” pad stacks, alternating wood grain 90 degrees for bases. If the floor joists and wall studs are sound and solidly connected you can lift joists to raise the wall. If lower end of studs are rotten you’ll have to attach solid lifting surfaces, like 2” x 8” girts to inside and outside of studs above the rot line to push the wall up. Don’t want the wall to bow when you start lifting.
Bear in mind 130 years ago ‘ballon construction’ was common.
Whether you decide to do this work yourself or hire someone, keep in mind 130 years ago there weren’t a lot of home building companies, codes or inspectors. You’ll probably run into unforeseen issues. Were I in your shoes I’d be looking at why the plate rotted and are there any issues with the foundation integrity that could bite me later, like warped widow and door frames that indicate foundation issues.
Lastly, get estimates on the repair costs even if you plan to do it yourself. May as well know what you’re getting into.

[Hannibal]

Years ago I did the same thing on a 2 story house of about the same age. It had no basement so I used an oak 4x4 and screw jacks to span the ceiling joists. Raised it up, cut the rotten wall studs off square, cut a piece to fit the gap and married it together with a longer partial stud and screws on one side after replacing the sill. Once finished I set it back down on the foundation and replaced the first floor joists and floor decking. That was over 30 years ago and the house is still lived in. I was a 24 yo who just looked it over and got busy. It ain't rocket science but it's a mess and a lot of hard work.

[Battis]

The foundation is rock on the inside, brick on the outside. It's over 6' in height in the basement. There's an old coal chute door so I don't think the house was ever raised. The house right next door was built by the same builder, in the same year (1892), and are (or were) identical room for room. That house still has the slate roof.
I'm pretty sure it's "balloon construction.
I've been checking it out thoroughly. The sill that needs work is 6" wide, and only about 2" is rotted (on the outside). The other four inches are fine. All that's resting on the rotted part is the outer edge of the wall studs. The backs of the wall studs rest on the good, solid sill. I really don't see how I'd jack or raise anything - the next floor joist in the basement is only 6" away and raising that won't move the sill with the rot - they're parallel.
I'm waiting to hear from two contractors. I'm thinking that I could cut away the bad 2" of rot (which wouldn't change or move anything) and replace that section with a PT 2x4 for the rest of the wall studs to rest on.

[Bmi48219]

I gave it a good look from inside and out. The floor joists in the basement run parallel to the rotted sill. The next joist over is only 6" away, so this rotted sill (rotted on the outside - that part in the basement is solid) basically supports the wall studs, not any of the floor. I know there's alot of weight on it still...

If you can see the outside edge of the sill plate the wall exterior is sided so you can attach a lifting beam from the outside. The floor joists are parallel to the sill plate. What is nailed to the inside face of the studs that supports the edge of the subfloor along this section of wall?
The outboard end of the subfloor has to be sitting on / attached to a piece of lumber nailed to the inside face of the studs. It may not be suitable for a lifting surface but it has to be there. Lifting the stud wall from the outside will lift the edge of the floor that contacts the stud wall.
If you have to replace the sill plate and rotten bottoms of studs you have to attach a lifting point that will both lift the wall and keep it from bowing in or out while you raise the wall to do the repairs. Maybe an angle iron or channel iron 8-10’ long screwed to studs from the outside of wall. Keep in mind if your jacks or lifting devices are too close to the wall you’ll have a hard time accessing the work from outside. Also if you’re lifting a wall that’s parallel but not attached to the joists you only want to lift enough to get the sill plate cut loose and slid out because the edge of the subfloor will be lifted too.

[Bmi48219]

The foundation is rock on the inside, brick on the outside. It's over 6' in height in the basement. There's an old coal chute door so I don't think the house was ever raised. The house right next door was built by the same builder, in the same year (1892), and are (or were) identical room for room. That house still has the slate roof.
I'm pretty sure it's "balloon construction.
I've been checking it out thoroughly. The sill that needs work is 6" wide, and only about 2" is rotted (on the outside). The other four inches are fine. All that's resting on the rotted part is the outer edge of the wall studs. The backs of the wall studs rest on the good, solid sill. I really don't see how I'd jack or raise anything - the next floor joist in the basement is only 6" away and raising that won't move the sill with the rot - they're parallel.
I'm waiting to hear from two contractors. I'm thinking that I could cut away the bad 2" of rot (which wouldn't change or move anything) and replace that section with a PT 2x4 for the rest of the wall studs to rest on.

I think you’re far better off going this way^^^

[pworley1]

You will want to be sure that the basement floor will support the jacks.

[BLAHUT]

get a structural engineer in to look at what you have?
then you will have a good idea of what you will need to do ??

[waksupi]

If you have Amish in your area, ask them for a quote. They do good work.

[Battis]

I definitely will have someone look at it before I do anything. As I said, the sill is 6" from the next floor joist, running parallel to each other. If I jack that joist, I don't see how the sill will rise. Attaching a lifting point makes sense.
I checked the floors inside - still level and solid. Nothing has moved. I'm thinking that the sill has been damaged for some time.
The house heads east for 45', then a sharp right for 8', then left for 20' (kitchen at back of house). So, the 8' section with the bad sill is not the back of the house.

Quakers, Mennonites not too far away, but no Amish.

[Bmi48219]

Jacking the wall isn’t likely to raise the sill. You’re just trying to get the weight off the sill so you can get a saws-all blade under and above it to cut it loose, (the studs will be toenailed into it) drift it out and get a new one in. Your old sill is bound to be thicker than new one so you’d have to use a rough cut board or a strip of plastic to make up the difference. If you need a thicker piece of wood for a new sill a strip of laminated scaffold plank may be thick enough. Pretty price too.

Pretty sure you’ll have to remove a piece of siding too. But that would give you room to scab some good 2x4s onto any punky stud ends.
It adds up to a lot of work. And may turn into more when you start opening it up.

We’re it me I’d try pushing a long finishing nail into the face of the sill to determine how far back it’s bad. If only an inch or inch and a half is bad, chisel it out. You can rip a strip off a PT 2x4 wide enough to match the thickness of the old sill. A snug fit, butter it up with carpenter-in-a-tube (construction adhesive), drive it in and nail it.

That sill isn’t there for strength, just a level surface to build on. Nothing says you have to replace it with one long piece.

[BLAHUT]

get hold of the Mennonites? see what they can do for you? they do good work.

[warren5421]

If you need rough cut lumber look on Crage's List for "Lumber" You may be able to get the thickness you need. White Oak would be best.