Taurus judge? Thoughts?

[johnsonian09]

My uncle wants to get a judge as a general purpose critter gun. He ran into a big cat last season. (Public land) Local law says no to centerfire cartridges, the exception being for shotguns cartridges. I think this is a grey area he’s betting on legally but his choice.

I don’t think a little .410 slug has the energy for a deer, cat or black bear. But I can’t really say for sure. Never used one. Never had any interest in a judge I thought they were strange. I know the 45colt can carry some good energy in non-cowboy guns. So maybe there’s a strong .410 load that fits the bill?

In my experience, I’d trust a 44bp cap and ball more then the .410.. 3 inch barrel shotgun sounds like it would be really slow velocity to me.


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[Texas by God]

A Rossi Tuffy with its 18" barrel in .410 would be preferable for me. The Judge is a very sorry excuse for a shotgun. Side by side test proves it. The .410 slug is similar to a .45 rb from a muzzleloader- it'll kill deer at close range.

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[Winger Ed.]

I’d trust a 44bp cap and ball more then the .410.. 3 inch barrel shotgun

Without doing a test, I'd think the .44 with BP fires a heavier slug, at faster speeds.
All the .410 ammo I've seen is really meant to shine coming out of a regular length shotgun barrel.
The 3" barrel just doesn't have the length for a burn & acceleration curve to get any speed up.

If it was me, I'd be carrying a 18", 12 ga. full length magazine, pump gun, with the hand grip on it out there.
In that situation: Whatever a .410 can do-- a 12 gauge can do better.

[BLAHUT]

the judge in my opinion was designed as a personal defense gun with a .410 buck load, slug or bird shot for snakes or a .45 colt.
I have seen them shot, with very little effectiveness at very close range.
I believe in what winger ed said to be so true.

[johnsonian09]

This would not be a primary arm. Just a handgun backup for problem critters that weigh more then the old man does. that could occur during an archery deer season. He’s mainly afraid of being reacquainted with a cougar that freaked him out last year because he’s never seen one before.

But yes you’ve confirmed my belief that a judge would be questionable at best for this purpose. 3inches vs 18+ makes a hell of a difference. Even in what would normally be a really powerful- for that given cartridge load.


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[Winger Ed.]

A Judge is probably lighter than a 6 shot revolver in .44Mag or .45Colt with its sort of trim lines and being a 5 shot.
For protection while hunting- I would feel OK with one, preferably a 3", and carry it with fairly hot loaded cast,
.45 Long Colts instead of the .410 slug.

In the area he hunts, it'd be sort of a head scratcher though.
Maybe the Hornady self defense .410s with the 2- OOO balls and a .357, 110JHP might be worth looking into.
At about 20', they make a 3 hole pattern about the size of your hand out of my Bond Derringer.
Shooting them, and a middle of the road loaded, cast, 250 gr .45SWC feels about the same.
That inclines me to believe the Hornadys are getting their speed on up there.

A Judge with .410 shot shells would be a good choice to keep in your tackle box.

Here's something kind of interesting:
All the big cats really prefer to make their attack on large prey from behind, cougars included.

In India, there are workers that have to go on trails through the wilderness areas.
It was a often problem with the last guy in a line getting attacked from behind by a tiger.
They solved the problem by having the last guy in line wear a face (looking) mask with big 'angry' eyes
turned around backwards on his head.

[M-Tecs]

My uncle wants to get a judge as a general purpose critter gun. He ran into a big cat last season. (Public land) Local law says no to centerfire cartridges, the exception being for shotguns cartridges. I think this is a grey area he’s betting on legally but his choice.

Sounds more like a misunderstanding of the local law??? So no one can carry or shoot a centerfire rifle or handgun in that area????? While there are shotgun zones and zones that restrict certain cartridges during specific hunting season, I am not aware of any of those restriction that apply to self-defense carry. Where is this?

[fastdadio]

The Judge has always confused me. It's not really a good .45 or short shotgun. My choice for a big cat at close range would be a 1911 stoked with some stout loads, and a good knife for back up.
As M-Tecs stated, Carry for self defense falls under different laws than the game laws for hunting.

[Wag]

When my BiL passed away several years ago, I inherited his T-Judge. Occasionally, I break it out and take it to the range but I don't think of it as a very good revolver. Shooting .410 is dicey at best, even for the 000 shot shells. But he had the idea that all of these novelty defense ammo types were worthwhile and he bought about every type he could find. None of them ever patterned well enough to give a killing shot so I felt it was an expensive waste of money.

I also qualify with it every two years for my CCW permit so I can have the .45 caliber listed on my permit for revolver.

It's too bulky to carry concealed, though, so I'm not sure why I even bother, really. Just something to have, I guess. I do have a derringer in .45 Colt, though so maybe it could prove useful to have it on the permit.

--Wag--

[lar45]

I think Federal has 4 000 loads in 410 for the Judge.
I load 4 000 buck with 2400. For close range it would seam to be a lot of fire power in a small-ish package.

[johnsonian09]

He is hunting state land in eastern ct. a very anti gun state that is densely populated even in the woods. So dense that deer don’t spook from scent there. Vs NH/Maine they seem to spook if they smell you 2 miles away.

No centerfire anything is allowed there. With the exception being shotguns. Their seasons are archery, shotgun+ muzzleloader, and then just muzzleloader.

If he was hunting private land he would be okay with centerfire. But he’s not.

Winger, I will tell him about the face mask thing. That makes perfect sense to me


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[M-Tecs]

That is while hunting. The laws for open or concealed carry are different than hunting laws but a permit is required for carry. If he wants the judge as a backup while hunting that as you stated that is legally highly questionable. Mountain lions are not considered to be hard to kill. Even a birdshot load at close range from a 12 or 20 gauge will far surpass the Judge in performance.

[Electrod47]

I'v always been a bit of a 410 fanatic. Not for any grand special purpose. "Just because". Anyway, owning as many, sometimes goofy, examples of 410 launchers. I gave my Judge away, it disappointed me so much. Keyhole bullets at 10 paces, wrist wrenching shot shell firing. So Long and good riddance.

[Daekar]

The judge is a bad gun and Taurus should feel bad for selling it. It's a terrible shotgun and a terrible revolver, you can take a look at Paul Harrell's video on it.

[Bent Ramrod]

A friend had a Judge. He threw an aluminum pop can 15 yards, loaded the gun with .410 shotshells and handed it to me. I emptied the gun at the can, raising a splendid cloud of dust all around it.

When I went to pick up the can, it had exactly one pellet hole in it. From the dust cloud, it looked to be centered in the pattern, but not much happened in the way of execution.

I think the original idea was for something that could be used to repel boarders for those living in apartment houses with cardboard walls. Outdoors, it’s just an expensive noisemaker.

[Hannibal]

If the sole purpose of considering this revolver is to keep from being in violation of game laws I'd call fish and game or whatever the regulating authority is in the area and explain what you're trying to do and why before spending the money and possibly being in violation anyway.
I'm guessing a centerfire cartridge firing a single projectile is going to be a violation if they find you with it anyway.

[Winger Ed.]

He ran into a big cat last season.

Years ago, a life long friend used to go on guided hunts in Colorado almost every year.
About 20 years ago, he was on one, and heard a big cat scream.
Later on, back at the guide's camp, he told the head guy what he'd heard. He was told, "No way there is any cougars here".

The next day, in a tower blind, he heard it again. Then several minutes later, again, and much closer.
He didn't walk back to camp that day. He stayed in the tower until one of the guys came and picked him up.

He told the guide about it, and the guide said,

"When you heard it the first time, the cougar was letting you know you were in his territory.
The second time, he was telling you to get out of my territory.
The third time it was saying-- you SHOULD HAVE gotten out of my territory".

[buckwheatpaul]

My uncle wants to get a judge as a general purpose critter gun. He ran into a big cat last season. (Public land) Local law says no to centerfire cartridges, the exception being for shotguns cartridges. I think this is a grey area he’s betting on legally but his choice.

I don’t think a little .410 slug has the energy for a deer, cat or black bear. But I can’t really say for sure. Never used one. Never had any interest in a judge I thought they were strange. I know the 45colt can carry some good energy in non-cowboy guns. So maybe there’s a strong .410 load that fits the bill?

In my experience, I’d trust a 44bp cap and ball more then the .410.. 3 inch barrel shotgun sounds like it would be really slow velocity to me.


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When I was looking I shot a Judge and a S & W Governor. The quality is much better on the Governor and the accuracy is better as well. But the S & W does cost more but is more useable for me as you have 6 shots vs. 5 shot. The Governor shoots 45 ACP, 45 Colt, and 45 Scofield as well. Moon clips also work with the Governor. I believe the Governor is pretty much to the same wgt as well. My Governor goes with me in the tractors and 4 wheelers and have never failed to do the job!

If there is downside the Governor will only shoot 2-1/2" .410 shells but the self defense loads are awesome!

[BLAHUT]

Call the state game warden where he is headed and ask what they say is local law, for carry ??

[Cargo]

I would definitely point him towards the Governor. It's lighter, cut for moon clips to use .45acp, carries six instead of five, wider range of aftermarket grips, throws a tighter pattern and the difference in quality is night and day. I've ran some rather warm .45lc through mine and I wouldn't consider doing that with a Judge. Yes I've shot a Judge and that's the reason I spent the extra money on the Governor.