9mm learning and constructive criticism

[JCSC]

Hey y’all

I have shot lead bullets but new to casting. I started with a venture in 9mm and would like to explain the progression and get any tips.


For a precursor, I am shooting range scrap. I’ve added some tin for better pour and have had no issue making pretty bullets. I am using Lee 355 TC molds, which I have a 2 cavity and 5 cavity ( I think). My foray in powder coating has been successful with the product from smoke and Eastwood. Basically made a bunch of pink, blue and green crayons thus far.

My first attempt was a set of bullets Lee sized at .356. My logical assumption that was the bore size for 9mm is 355, but After slugging bores, I now understand there is a good bit of variance. These 5-9mm pistols range between .357 and .358. I had ehhh accuracy, no leading and about 15% bullets that wanted to yaw and tumble.

With this first batch I had a slight bit of shaving when seating. I use RCBS carbide dies, but i crimp separately with Lee FCD or regular Lee taper crimp. I learned that I need to flare a good bit more.

Next step was to switch over to a .358 stem for my rcbs expander and I worked a batch of rounds with that set up, which now shaved Andy, because you can’t run the full depth of 38 special expander in a 9mm.

This batch of rounds is now basically crap and I am pulling them. Partly due to now over crimping them and concerns with losing proper headspace from excessive headspace.

To summarize, I have zero concerns with my loading practices. I learn every day, but my foundation is solid.

Is this the normal progression for messing with cast bullets.

To recap- mold makes a .356 and I get .359/360 after coating. I’m sizing , which then requires expanding to .358 and then taking my .356 stem to get the proper flare. I haven’t even got to the point where I know if these newly sized pills will fly.

Please give me your thoughts.

[Castaway]

Others will chime in, but I wouldn’t add tin to range scrap. A bell just large enough to hold a bullet easily, but not overly large Will help in shaving bullets while seating. If they chamber without sizing, try that and see how they work. You didn’t say how fast you were pushing them or the powder and charge.

[JCSC]

Others will chime in, but I wouldn’t add tin to range scrap. A bell just large enough to hold a bullet easily, but not overly large Will help in shaving bullets while seating. If they chamber without sizing, try that and see how they work. You didn’t say how fast you were pushing them or the powder and charge.

Castaway- I’m pushing them mid range. Just trying cheap steel ringing ammo.

3.9-4.0 grains of HP38.

[Dusty Bannister]

It sounds like some of the issues is an undersized bullet, but you do not say if they are sized to a specific diameter or what the As Cast diameter is.

Some members of this forum have gone to a lot of effort to put their knowledge into a thread which has been selected to be a "Sticky". I think if you read through the following sticky, a lot of future questions will be answered and things may go a lot better for you.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...s-in-a-new-9mm

[Dave W.]

Shaving is an indication of not enough flare on the case. Stick with the 9MM stem to size the case and flare it. Brass is soft, it will expand to the diameter of the bullet. Sizing the case too large will not allow enough "grip" on the bullet and there will be bullet setback.
As far as crimping, in most pistol bullets, a person is not really crimping the case, they are just taking the bell out.
The yaw and tumbling is another indication of under size bullets.
You may have to get another mold that will throw larger bullets.
Continue on, the learning is half the fun.

[Soundguy]

Hey y’all

I have shot lead bullets but new to casting. I started with a venture in 9mm and would like to explain the progression and get any tips.


For a precursor, I am shooting range scrap. I’ve added some tin for better pour and have had no issue making pretty bullets. I am using Lee 355 TC molds, which I have a 2 cavity and 5 cavity ( I think). My foray in powder coating has been successful with the product from smoke and Eastwood. Basically made a bunch of pink, blue and green crayons thus far.

My first attempt was a set of bullets Lee sized at .356. My logical assumption that was the bore size for 9mm is 355, but After slugging bores, I now understand there is a good bit of variance. These 5-9mm pistols range between .357 and .358. I had ehhh accuracy, no leading and about 15% bullets that wanted to yaw and tumble.

With this first batch I had a slight bit of shaving when seating. I use RCBS carbide dies, but i crimp separately with Lee FCD or regular Lee taper crimp. I learned that I need to flare a good bit more.

Next step was to switch over to a .358 stem for my rcbs expander and I worked a batch of rounds with that set up, which now shaved Andy, because you can’t run the full depth of 38 special expander in a 9mm.

This batch of rounds is now basically crap and I am pulling them. Partly due to now over crimping them and concerns with losing proper headspace from excessive headspace.

To summarize, I have zero concerns with my loading practices. I learn every day, but my foundation is solid.

Is this the normal progression for messing with cast bullets.

To recap- mold makes a .356 and I get .359/360 after coating. I’m sizing , which then requires expanding to .358 and then taking my .356 stem to get the proper flare. I haven’t even got to the point where I know if these newly sized pills will fly.

Please give me your thoughts.

Buy a Lee universal expander..be done with it..add a hair of flare..stop shaving..taper crimp and go.

[DougGuy]

Wow lot of variation in groove diameter with 5 barrels. You may want to go ahead and have the barrels throated .3585" and size to .358" after PC rather than have to vary seating depth on a per barrel basis.

[Kosh75287]

I'm not sure of a great many things in this thread, but maybe the facts haven't been fully articulated.
Did the OP get a chance to chrono his loads? According to Hodgdon's the velocities are in or near the trans-sonic range, which can also do odd things to flight characteristics.
GENERALLY when I get tumbling from newly cast projectiles using "middlin" charge weights, MY inclination is to increase the powder charge by 0.1-0.2 gr. The higher pressure may effect better obturation of the bullet to the bore, as well as push it faster, which should better spin-stabilize it for life outside the muzzle. Higher velocity MIGHT also possibly worsen tumbling and accuracy problems, by a mechanism with which I am not fully acquainted.
If higher velocities give you better results, I would not stop looking there. The two results I mention from increasing the powder charge, if present, are probably "compensating" for other problems rather than resolving them.

[Kenstone]

Hey y’all

To recap- mold makes a .356 and I get .359/360 after coating. I’m sizing , which then requires expanding to .358 and then taking my .356 stem to get the proper flare. I haven’t even got to the point where I know if these newly sized pills will fly.
Please give me your thoughts.

I use Lee 9mm dies and a simple swap of the powder thru the expander to the expander from a 38S&W die (Lee #SE1699 PM EXP PLUG), so
only one operation to expand/flare.
I buy 38/357 coated bullets (.358-.360 dia.) and push them thru a Lee sizing die, depending on what size/caliber I need/want.
https://www.titanreloading.com/produ...h=Lee%20SE1699
You would need to buy a Lee 9mm powder thru the expander die to do that though.

.
Edit:
I found the Lee FCD would further size oversized bullets, so I stopped using it.
Using bigger bullets in combination with thicker cases can result in rounds that will not "plunk" in guns with tight chambers.
Edit II:
Some have removed the carbide ring from the Lee FCD to eliminate the resizing during the crimp operation.
So, there's that too,
just sayin'
.

[243winxb]

Need BHN 15 alloy. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...9mm-luger.317/

[fayettefatts]

Others will chime in, but I wouldn’t add tin to range scrap.

May I ask why?

[gunarea]

Lee factory crimp die will undersize your lead projectile as a finished product. This particular issue has come up in many other calibers utilizing cast lead alloy projectiles. Undersize boolits are inaccurate. Pull a finished round apart and measure the now resized projectile. Just trying to help.
Roy

[Dieselhorses]

Undersized bullets with result in key-holing and also lead BHN being too hard or both. I do taper crimp my 9’s but it’s a very light crimp.


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[Cast10]

I use the Lee 356-120-TC on my Glock 9’s.

I reload with RCBS carbide dies and use a very slight bell; just enough where the base will sit in the brass. I apply a slight crimp whereby the loaded cartridge, when bullet end is pressed hard against the bench, will not set back into the case. COAL 1.080; kerplunk.

Mix is BHN 11.3, no leading, no tumbling. Loads are in the upper end with WSF and yield 1055-1095fps in different barrel lengths.

[lotech]

Shoot the largest diameter bullet that will allow easy chambering and stay within specs; this will usually be .357" or .358", rarely larger. I only shoot a heavy bullet in 9mm, the Lyman #358212 roundnose design of about 150 grs. because of the good accuracy and perfect functioning in several pistols. About any alloy between about 11 and 15 BHN should work fine. I taper crimp minimally. I've never seen a need to powder coat bullets or to use the apparently popular Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 9mm cartridge, but I suppose both will work if done properly.

[JCSC]

Thanks Roy. I measured a seated bullet when I was using the Lee 356 sizer. I ended up with a bullet at .3545 and too small for my guns.

I have since switched to a .358 sizer and working thru the issues associated with brass sizing, expanding etc.

I believe the comment about the Lee universal flaring tool may be a good next step.

[243winxb]

Cast bullets spring back after sizing. But at different rates depending on the alloy used.

The higher the antimony content, more spring back, larger diameter.

The Lee universal flaring tool only opens the case mouth.

[justindad]

I’m concerned your next step is to apply too much of a flare to the case. Apply as little of a flare as is needed so you maintain maximum neck tension. Make sure your expander die is specifically made for lead - the Lyman M die is common, but I use a Redding version. Your RCBS carbide set most likely has an expander for j-word bullets, not lead (unless you have their Cowboy dies).
*
Keep the practice of crimping and seating in separate steps, but the Lee FCD may not be good if you need larger boolits.
*
Go into the powder coat section, and ask them for how much a bullet can be sized up with the coating before problems occur. You might need a mold that casts a larger diameter.

[Soundguy]

The Lee universal neck expander is nice.

[mdi]

I usually mention to new reloaders use as much flare as you need to get good bullets seating, no shaving now, and worry about case life later. Too much flare is when the case will not enter the seating die. Flare is removed with your deflaring tool (aka; taper crimp die) just enough to plunk easily. I have 5, 9mm pistols that have groove diameters from .355" to .358", so I size most bullets to .358" (some .369" for my Tolerev and .356" for my Masada). I have used a lot of range scrap and have had no problems with what I purchased from The Captain.