311290 In 7.7 Arisaka using BLC2 Powder

[MUSTANG]

As a Kid, I remember visits to one my Uncles (Fathers Brother) who had a Den with all sorts of Japanese WW-II items hanging on the wall that he had collected during his Island Hopping campaigns in the Pacific as an Army Soldier. He had multiple rising sun flags, Japanese swords, nambu pistols, and Arisaka rifles. My father was too young for WW-II, but his brothers all served in Pacific and European Theaters during WW-II.

A couple of weeks ago in the Barber Shop, one of the Barbers was talking about a group of rifles his father had given him. He asked me what I knew about a Japanese Arisaka in the group. I had to admit that although I had one “Somewhere in the Safe”; I did not know a lot about them other than the Japanese had used both 6.5mm and 7.7mm rifles. He said he wanted to clean and test fire all the rifles, but was concerned about the Arisaka. He was concerned about it’s safety given age, and from a current practical perspective – no ammunition available.

Growing up; the Japanese rifles were reputed to be absolute junk – made in home shops across Japan with crude castings, file to fit, and poor finish. After years I learned to overcome the prejudicial views shaded by those who I knew had engaged in combat with a bitter enemy, the comparison of last ditch end of war Japanese Arisaka rifles compared to production from earlier years, and USofA service members focusing on European and US service rifles for sporterizing . My Arisaka rifle was apparently produced in the early years of the Japanese war – it’s serial number is 27,6XX. My rifle still has the Chrysanthemum (often referred to as the Mum) on the receiver; many of the Japanese rifles had the Mum filed off by their Japanese owners before surrendering at the end of the war as it was the Japanese Emperors seal. About 3,500,000 Japanese Type 99 Arisaka’s were manufactured by Japan.

The conversation in the Barber Shop refreshed my memory; I had an Arisaka I bought for $30.00 more than 40 years ago located in the back of one of the gun safes. I bought it from a friend in the USMC who did not want it any more. They were dirt cheap back then, but looked it up on the Internet last week and saw process ranging from $800 to $2,500. Wow – talking about inflation. Pics of the rifle from the back of my safe (Click to enlarge Pictures):










As for the ammunition. Not seeing any actually available; although several locations list it – but currently out of stock. Good thing those of us on this Forum are Reloaders, Casters and Swagers – Right?

[MUSTANG]

I decided to pull that rifle out of the safe and get to where I could shoot it for the 1st time. Ammunition would be the initial issue. I did a little research and discovered several articles on converting 30-06 Brass to 7.7x58 Arisaka. Some articles speculated two problems with converting 30-06 brass. The base diameter of the 30-06 is .471 and the Rim is .473 whereas the 7.7x58 Arisaka .473 and the Rim is .475. Additionally; articles indicated a significant number of converted 30-06 brass cases had neck splits when fired in the 7.7x58 Arisaka.

Given escalating Brass prices and general availability of Brass and Ammunition in these times; I decided to keep my sorted and grouped head stamped brass for use in my variety of 30-06 rifles. These experiments will all be using a variety of Surplus Military (Greek, Korean, and European) and odd ball commercial brass cases.

I initially have only created 20 brass cases for the 7.7x58 cases. The following pic shows from left to right – A once fired 30-06 case, a 30-06 case sized to 7.7x58 with the neck significantly elongated in the sizing process, and the last picture is of the case cut to near overall 7.7x58 length using a small tubing sizer. (Click picture to enlarge).



The tubing cutter I used was an HDX Mini Tubing Cutter Model 2410. Although the neck seems really long after full length sizing the 30-06 case in a 7.7x58 die; getting a tubing cutter that will work requires a very small profile cutter. I take my caliper; measure from case base to the neck 2.28 inches (plus just a little) and score an area at that length using a sharp kitchen pairing knife. I then place the mini tubing cutter blade over the score mark, tighten the blade to touch the mark and the cut. I rotate 360 degrees on direction, then 360 degrees the other direction until the excess neck ring is cut off. Warning - if one turns more than 360 degrees in one direction with the Mini-Tubing cutter; it will slowly arc off the neck – never making a full cut through the neck.

After all the cases have full length sized and the necks cut down, I then run the cases through the 7.7x58 full length Sizer die a second time. This removes the inside belling of the neck wall opening caused by the compression of the Mini Tubing Cutter and ensures the case is returned to overall dimensions and any neck area out of round is removed. I then use a 7.7x58 Lee Case length gauge and cutter in a battery powered drill to trim the case to overall length. After that; the inside and outside of the Case mouth is slightly beveled with an RCBS case mouth deburring tool.

After the cases were all formed, I was concerned about the neck areas as several articles warned of neck splitting when forming 7.7x58 from 30-06 brass. I placed 20 formed cases on their bases; and used a 1lb propane bottle with propane torch head to heat the necks of each of the cases in order to anneal them. I simply timed the process by counting one thousand on to one thousand ten for each case neck. The flame was held where the blue portion of the flame was touching the case neck for the ~ 10 second heat cycle. Cases where cleaned by tumbling in corn cob after this process.

[MUSTANG]

Multiple articles referred to the Arisaka Type 99 rifles having a wide range of bore diameters. An often cited range for bore diameters of the Type 99 was .311 to .316. I have avoided the admonishment of many to do a chamber/throat cast to determine bore size to date. I pulled some RCBS 200 Sil and NOE 311290 cast boolits out of storage and noted that the lands appeared to be tight on the noses of each. I had both cast and powder coated so I decided to use these as my start up boolits for testing.

Boolits were powder coated with Eastwood Powder Coat, baked for 50 minutes at 450 degrees and water quenched. Aluminum gas checks made from Amerimax roofing material were used, and applied after Powder Coating. Dimensions of bands was about .314 to .315, so I decided to apply the gas checks by hand, and then size them using an NOE .314 die to size the bands and swage the gas checks onto the bases of the boolits.

Cases were primed with Remington Large Rifle primers. Based on previous work in the .308 Winchester with the RCBS 200 Sil and the NOE 311290; I decided to try BLC2 Powder as a start since I have a goodly supply on hand. (Yes I know the admonishments of many to go down the Red Dot, Unique, etc.. path). I settled on 33 Grains of BLC-2 powder. I applied a small polyester over powder filler to keep the powder from moving around. When the RCBS 200 Sil and NOE 311290 were seated; the neck tension seating a .314 sized boolit was considerable. (Note: After test firing 10 rounds – I measured inside the necks of the converted 7.7x58 brass and they measured .313 to .314 after being fired). I set overall length of the loaded Cartridges 3.13 inches for both the RCBS 200 Sil and the NOE 311290’s.

[MUSTANG]

Test firing was “Interesting” as I left the tripod for the LabRadar Chronograph at the house; coupled with bringing 1 inch black spotter targets on 8x11 white paper as targets – having forgotten the NRA SR-1 standard 100 Yard Targets I would normally have used. My tired old eyes could not even see the 1 inch black dot at 100 yards (normally I am using scopes these days). I could see the white paper; but getting a consistent hold with the Arisaka sights was challenging without an adequate black bull being available.



Although the group is atrocious by normal expectations; I was pleasantly surprised given all of the “I forgots” and personal unknowns in this effort. I found recoil to be quite sharp with these loads; probably because of the relatively straight line between the barrel alignment and the butt of the stock. The 5 rounds of RCBS 200 Sil was 1771 Feet per Second average, and the 311290 was 1892 Feet per Second Average. Alloy was 96/4/1 (Lead/Antimony/Tin).

The RCBS 200 Sil rounds were fired using the sights flipped up. All the Rounds went over the top of the Target so none were recorded. I shot the 5 NOE 311290 rounds with the standard “Battle Sights” (Sights not flipped up). Sight picture I tried to establish was the 12 oclock, bottom edge of the paper seen at the top of the picture below. Note the stringing of shots. 5 round group size was 2 and 3/8 wide by 8 Inches top to bottom.



Although nothing I want to repeat; I think there may be something to retest here and work with If I have NRA standardized 100 Yard bull targets for my next outing. One of my goals is to provide my barber 20 rounds to use in “Recreational Shooting” in a month or so he can shoot his fathers rifle. For me; it will be an opportunity to fabricate some 7.7 Arisaka Brass and do some experimenting with my rifle this fall. My Arisaka may never be a 1st round draft choice – but maybe it won’t be permanent in the back “Safe Queen” in the future either.

[725]

I helped a friend with his "last ditch" and did mostly what you have described. I found the brass conversions easy and although I only annealed on a "4" count (before the brass turned red), I had no split necks. Basically the rifle looked like my German Shepard did the build, but surprisingly, it was very accurate. I constantly bug him to take it deer hunting, but he resists.

[paul edward]

I have loaded the 7.7x58 using cast 311299 gas check bullets sized .312 and BL-C (2). These were loaded in Norma 7.7 cases as well as several batches made from MilSurp 30/06 cases and annealed before loading. These loads functioned well and were acceptably accurate.

With the 7.7, you can use any of the medium burn rate rifle powders like H335, H380, Norma 202, IMR 4320,
IMR 3031 or IMR 4064. You can make up reduced loads with 12 grains of Unique and almost any suitable bullet.


One reason for using MilSurp brass is that they do not have a caliber marked on the case head.

Your friend could definitely use his 7.7 for deer. Balistically this cartridge is in the same class with the 303 British, 7.65x53 Mauser, and a zillion other military rifle cartridges.

[MUSTANG]

Took the 7.7 Arisaka back out for another go at it with cast.

The following pic is a 10 round group using 30-06 brass converted to 7.7x58 - fired at 100 yards with original iron sites. Load is 33 Grains of BLC Powder, a dacron over powder filler, and Remington Large Rifle Primers. The boolit is an NOE clone of the 311290 - Powder coated with Eastwood green - sized to .314 with an aluminum gas check I made from amerimax .014 flashing.



The standard sight was used. I chronographed these with the Lab Radar. 10 round average velocity was 1830 feet per second.

My eyes are getting old and I find the use of the Arisaka triangle point front site particularly difficult to get a good sight picture - I believe this contributes to the vertical stringing in the picture.

[MUSTANG]

The following pic is another 10 round group using 30-06 brass converted to 7.7x58 - fired at 100 yards with original iron sites. Load is 33 Grains of BLC Powder, a dacron over powder filler, and Remington Large Rifle Primers.

The boolit this time is an RCBS 200 Sil (.308) - Powder coated with Eastwood green - sized to .314 with an aluminum gas check I made from amerimax .014 flashing.



Once again I used the standard sight for the first 9 shots. I chronographed these with the Lab Radar. 10 round average velocity was 1818 feet per second.

Same vertical stringing as the previous group above. For the last shot; I flipped up the ladder sights and used the 300 yard position. Note the 3 o-clock impact on the 9 ring for that 10th shot.

I believe that this rifle could be used effectively for deer sized targets at the 100 yard to 150 yard range using the 300 yard elevations and this cast boolit/powder configuration.

[MUSTANG]

I made up 20 rounds of the RCBS 200 Sil load for the 7.7 Arisaka and dropped them off to the Barber I mentioned in this thread. When he gets the opportunity to shoot them in his Arisaka in the next month or so; hopefully will be able to get a range report from him.

Given the various citations of Arisaka Barrels ranging from .311 to .316 that I have read; it will be interesting to hear his results. I have not seen his rifle so I can not comment on the specs his barrel has.

[rbuck351]

In the last couple of years I have bought two 7.7 Jap rifles at the Gardner auction in Kalispell. Both have been sporterized with scope mounts and after market stocks. I checked the bores and both are about .316. Not having a mold in that size, I have been shooting some jacketed .312 bullets. Accuracy is 2" or a bit less area

[WinchesterM1]

I have 7 type 99s all came from vets with the mum(I won’t buy them if they don’t being a massive WW2 collector). But I killed a deer with one of my last ditch rifles last year with the NOE 310-170fn non lube groove over 20 gn of 4227. It shot great

I use 270 brass for mine because I don’t, and won’t own a 270 it makes it easy to sort, if I find a 270 win at the range I think awesome!! A 7.7 jap round.

I use a HF mini cut off saw for mine though, I run my lubed 270 into the 7.7 dies then I cut and then trim then anneal. I haven’t lost a case yet, I have converted around 5-600 pieces. I used to use 30-06 brass before one of my friends shot some in one of my 1917 enfields before I could stop him. So after that I scrapped all of the ‘06 brass and started using 270 brass