Smokeless in MZ

[10 ga]

Long time MZ shooter (45+ years). Intrigued by the new smokeless shooters for MZs. The Savage 10MZ is just apperaing here and now I found a bunch of guys are using smokeless in the Encore MZs. Anyone have any info on the powders and pressures the smokeless generating in the Encores? Have found enough info to deal with the Savage. I have always been able to hold my own with any of the shooters. I have 4 hammer guns and 2 inlines. Best shooter is a TC firehawk and I've been able to shoot with anyone with a Gonic, White, Knight, Omega etc... etc... then, this fall, one of the guys showed up with the Savage MZ and none could approach his performance. Then some of the guys started with smokeless in Encores. I am no longer able to compete with the MZ and I know I can hold just as hard as any of them. What say yall?
If you don't kill what you eat, you're just a scavenger.
10 ga.

[missionary5155]

Greetings and WELCOME 10ga !
Is this for competiton or hunting ?
Mike

[10 ga]

The competition is informal but intense. The hunting is real. Basically I'm facing ordinary shooters that I usually outshoot handily but now they have an equipment advantage, not better skills. I'll have to make an equipment improvement and I want to survey the available info. As usual I will investigate before taking what they say for truth. You know competitive shooters are such a truthful lot, especially when they are enjoying an advantage. When trying to feed yourself and family are you a scavenger or a predator, ie. the only difference between a possum, dumpster diver and a Walmart shopper is $.

[Caliboose]

I have a Savage ML that I shoot smokeless in. I didn't think any other manufactures were recommending smokeless in their barrels. I am surprised that no others have jumped on this idea and started putting out stronger barrels. It may be a liability thing - you know - "I thought I had one of those stronger guns" from the fellow with burned off hair and just one usable eye. The most significant advantage is that you don't have to clean it immediately when you fire it. You can also fire round after round at practice without cleaning. By the way, high pressure/temperature sabots are recommended as some of the ones intended for black powder don't hold up well with smokeless behind them.

I also have a T/C Hawken (also a 50 cal.) and the deer that I kill with it do not seem to know that I am using an older and much cheaper rifle than the ones I kill with the Savage ML-11

As my eyes get older, I appreciate the scope more. However, the local deer herd is increasing to such an extent that I have given thought to just using the Hawken. I thought about using the Savage in regular firearms season, but since I got a Sharp's 45-70 I want to hunt with it instead.

By the way, I think the Savage may fall into one of those hazy rule areas. It is legal to mail black powder arms through the USPS. I am not sure about the Savage ML-11 since it can be used with smokeless. Probably ought to use a FFL or face to face when buying/selling to be certain.

I use Accurate Powder 5744 but there are an endless number of balls, bullets, sabots, etc. to try.

Good luck with your dilemma. Unless I get the 'trophy' urge, I think I will revert to the patched round ball in my TC.

Caliboose

[freedom475]

I know a gunsmith who was called to testify about the strength of the steel that TC used in there Hawkens. I guess some jack### loaded his with smokeless and blew his arm and part of his face off. (tried to blame it on TC) It was believed that the ball was even short loaded cause of the way the barrel ruptured. I know of a lot of people that claim they have done it for years, but I would NOT.

The new inlines designed for smokeless are probly asking for trouble if you own more than one ML and one is not designed for the smokeless. Besides I think this is kind of missing the point/fun of muzzleloading...IMO.

[waksupi]

The barrel isn't the weak point in the system. It is the breech and nipple area. If the threads aren't kept in perfect condition, I would hate to be shooting it when it failed. I remember seeing X-rays years ago of a guy with a breech plug imbedded in his head. Not pretty .

[6pt-sika]

I've had a Savage 10ML now for about a year and it is without a doubt the most accurate inline I have ever owned !

And I also have a pair of Disc rifles and a Encore Pro Hunter !

I like that Savage so much I am in the middle of looking for a nice used one that doesn't have an Accu Trigger as I want ot to rebarrel with a PacNor 45 caliber barrel !

My 50 shoots the Hornady 250SST and it's pushed with 42 grains of VV N-110 .

In the Savage with the 45 cal barrel , the ticket so I understand is the Hornady 200 SST with 60-62 grains of H4198 for a velocity in the 2600-2700 FPS range ! That is right online with a 308 WIN loaded with a 165 grain SST !

[6pt-sika]

Bu the way it is my understanding that Melvin Forbes's company "New Ultralite Arms" " is also making a smokeless bolt action ML . But at a considerably higher price then the Savage 10ML !

[Gerry N.]

The smokeless ml rifles on the market are going to get someone killed. I overheard a salesdolt at a Wally world telling a Potential Corpse that using smokeless in a ML rifle was OK because he read about it in a shooting magazine. I just shook my head and went about my business. Yeah, I suppose I could have stuck my 2 cents in, but we all know the value of free advice.

Imagine the fun when Potential Corpse dumps 80 grains of Bullseye into his shiny new inline followed by a 350 grain maxi-ball.

Just one of the reasons I tend to evacuate the range the instant an inline shows up. I watched as two nice young men with new inlines opened a bottle of Unique preparatory to loading up. As I was in harm's way, I hollered at the rangemaster who had no qualms about chewing some fresh anuses.

I just packed up my old flinchlock and went home for the day. Much safer to go find a nice empty gravel pit. At least there, the only person in mortal danger is me.

Gerry N.