My observations - replacement powders

[Hi-Speed]

In an attempt to find adequate replacements for hard to find powders as Alliant Unique, I undertook testing of various 38 Spl +P and 357 Magnum 158 gr - 178 gr loads using N340, Accurate #5 and BE-86.

N340 - higher ES and SDs and less accuracy unless driven at maximum VV manual charges in 38 Spl+P. Obtained some of the best accuracy with VV 357 magnum loads (357 cases of course)… and lowest ES (10) and SD (3, yes THREE) (10 shot string) using a 358439HP, avg fps 1,105 fps (Ruger 4 5/8 BH). Will be my go to powder for Mid Range to “entry level” 357 magnum loads. Only problem is that N340 bridges a bit in my RCBS Little Dandy but powder still measures spot on.

Accurate #5 - found to be good and accurate with the heavier Keith SWCs (170-178grs) in 38-44 loads at approximately 950 fps - 1,000 fps from my Ruger. Accuracy and consistency (ES/SD) was lacking with 158 gr bullets with 38 Spl +P charges. In 357 Magnum loads, Accurate #5 was neither as accurate as my Unique or N340 loadings or as “tight” consistent over the chronograph. I’ll use just for my 38-44 range loads using heavier Keith bullets.

BE-86 - gave me excellent accuracy using 158 gr and 38 Spl +P load data. ES and SD were as low as 24 and 7 respectively while obtaining 961 fps from the 4 5/8 inch Ruger. I’m also using BE-86 with the 158 gr bullet as a mid range 357 Magnum load (approx 1,050 fps with excellent low ES/SD). BE-86 is amazingly consistent and gives me the lowest ES/SD and best accuracy from 900-1,050 fps range. I have not yet experimented with this powder with heavier Keith type bullets in either 38 or 357 absent published load data.

If Unique was readily available I wouldn’t replace it with the above powders except for perhaps N340 in 357 Magnum loadings or BE-86 in 38 Spl +P. If I was limited to one powder of these three, I would pick Unique.

Would I replace Power Pistol if it was readily available in 38 Spl +P with BE-86, probably not since I already get very good accuracy and consistency with Power Pistol. Unique vs Power Pistol (using 158 gr SWC): my 5.2 grs Unique and 5.6 gr Power Pistol 38 Spl +P loads are nearly identical in performance over my chronograph… limited to one, I would select Unique. I also like how Unique “behaves” in 357 Magnum cases compared to Power Pistol…and I can push Unique to nearly 1,100 fps with 158 gr SWC cast in my Ruger 357 Magnum without that loud bark using Power Pistol!

[Jack Stanley]

If Universal Clays is available where you are , I find it very similar to Unique .

Jack

[Hi-Speed]

I used Universal quite a lot in the past. I really don’t like how it behaves towards its upper part of its load data. I believe for my applications that it’s less versatile than Unique. I found it also less accurate compared to Unique and Power Pistol but I’ve heard people rave about it…guess this reloading stuff becomes subjective at times.

[Jack Stanley]

On the upper end of it's data I agree , the high end is where Unique seems to do better for me . But in the middle , Universal has worked well for me .

When it was cheaper than Unique I gave it a try , when it got more expensive I went back .

Jack

[jgstrug]

I have used 10 grns of Unique in my 38-55 for years with cast 250 plain base. Is it safe to try to develop the same results from BE-86? I have not seen it talked about in rifle cast loading much at all,and I do realize that the danger of a double charge exists with these powers. Are there other reasons that make this a bad idea?

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[charlie b]

My early years at reloading I did not have access to a lot of powders. Basically what was on the shelf when I needed some. I probably used 10 different powders for my .45acp and .357. Few would give me 'bad' groups once I got the load set. Didn't own a chrono back then so 25yd groups was all I had to go by. I'd just pick the max load from the books, go a little lighter, and shoot it.

What I did notice was how dirty some powders were compared to others.

[jgstrug]

I have used 10 guns of Unique in my 38-55 for years with cast 250 plain base. Is it safe to try to develop the same results from BE-86? I have not seen it talked about in rifle cast loading much at all,and I do realize that the danger of a double charge exists with these powers. Are there other reasons that make this a bad idea?

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I am not a troll, this is a real question,I need to know if this is a safe endeavor to take on.

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[AlaskaMike]

BE86 data is not interchangeable with Unique data. They're close, but BE86 is just a little bit slower.

Especially where it's a new powder to you, you should really use published load data.

If you can't find any, a call or email to Alliant should get you started.

[jgstrug]

Thank you,yes, I have read the burn rate charts and even checked for volume difference by setting my powder measure to throw 10gr of Unique and then weighing that volume of BE-86. That came to 14gr.I also did a little comparing the two as used in 44mag cast loading. I would definitely like to be sure,and not be the first to try this using generalization but we are either very early in the cycle, or there is some reason why it is not being done. Pistol powder has been used extensively in cast rifle cartridge loading even though it is true that it is a very small charge in a large case.

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[jgstrug]

Thank you,yes, I have read the burn rate charts and even checked for volume difference by setting my powder measure to throw 10gr of Unique and then weighing that volume of BE-86. That came to 14gr.I also did a little comparing the two as used in 44mag cast loading. I would definitely like to be sure,and not be the first to try this using generalization but we are either very early in the cycle, or there is some reason why it is not being done. Pistol powder has been used extensively in cast rifle cartridge loading even though it is true that it is a very small charge in a large case.

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Okay, I tried it myself and it worked. I am pretty happy with the results of my testing so far. Started with 9gr and saw nothing out of the ordinary, went to 9.5gr and was getting good accuracy. Shot some at 10gr and was getting good accuracy and very near same poi as my standard load. Next club match I will use this load and see if it performs well. Remember safety in loading these depends on being certain that only one charge per case is loaded, this charge is very small compared with case volume.

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[jgstrug]

I see a lot of people have looked at this, but no comments. Today is more proof that it works, shot the whole match with it and a picture is worth 1000 words!

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And a picture of the fired cases.

[AlaskaMike]

Looks good!

[ddixie884]

Cool......................

[jgstrug]

Need to chrono it and shoot it on paper.

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[Jack Stanley]

I have seen BE-86 offered , I haven't depleted the powders I have enough to need experimenting . I didn't even know the burning rate of it . I'm glad it worked out and you found a good load so you can make the steel hit the ground .

And , like you said , watching for double charges is always a good idea .

Jack

[charlie b]

The only problem I have seen with pistol powder in rifles is that some become erratic at lower densities and pressures. If the powder burns consistently then you end up with decent groups. Much of it is experimental and you are on your own with it. My only caution is to be careful if you try to push vel much.

Here are other examples
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[jgstrug]

Some very interesting stuff in that article, and I didn't know that anyone had worked this extensively with such low density loads in big rifle cases. I am not trying for high velocity at all, I am trying for as close as I can get to the old original black powder load specs.

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[charlie b]

Yep, I liked it. I found the .30-30AI data was very close to what my .308 does. Kinda like, find a case with similar capacity/caliber and use that data. I only wish they had done lighter bullets as well.

[Low Budget Shooter]

I've done some 38 Special and 357 Magnum load comparisons with Unique and BE-86. Using about .3 to .5 grain more BE-86 yields similar velocity.

[jgstrug]

I've done some 38 Special and 357 Magnum load comparisons with Unique and BE-86. Using about .3 to .5 grain more BE-86 yields similar velocity.

Very interesting, I need to chrono mine but I have have missed some rams from shooting over the top of them.

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