Reximen Throne Gen 2

[Racing]

First up, nevermind the mess on the bench. Just finished another job and tossed all the tools on there to sort them..
The Throne Gen 2.
Sorry to say thus far from what i understand a European affair only, one derived from Kral. Same folk that run them both and have to say that i happen to like Kral, out of the several Turkish made guns.

Some iidiott dubbed this "an Impact killer". No. No, it´s not. Even by a longshot. An Impact look alike then? Well, i can see where that comes from, but the truth of the matter is that the Throne Gen 2 is a gun that out of all aspects stands tall on its own power.



As i do what i do what was on order here was to pick it apart and figure it out. Where the FX Impact is a gun SYSTEM the Throne Gen 2 is an at least decently thought through gun, and what´s more rather well executed.
Yeah. That there is the bare bone chassis, for lack of better words.
Note the extensive use of pins, instead of per normal small screws..



Right. Kral. So the thing of course sports a "power adjuster". As to what avail, you tell me, but one thing´s for certain.. that power adjuster is a constant topic with the Kral crowd. Be it for modifying it or.. it leaking.



Out rear in turn there´s provision for a hammer spring adjuster. Seeing the spring used though...right.



As the charging handle is mid ships that brings a linkage as this is a bullpup. Indeed the mag is inserted at the rear due. Pellet probe in turn is a of "slug" shape and in turn within reason adjustable (it´s snout is screwed into the rear part of it)



Yeah. Like i said. Pins. IMO this is rather smart as smaller screws very very often gets over torq´d and what not, rendering threads that get shot with time and what not. In turn using pins brings that whoever is to take this apart better have some drift on hand that fit.. good. Cause that´ll most likely make Bubba scarce around these.
That lower slot cut into the receiver/block is for a guide screw bolted to the hammer.



Yep. A 22.
To my knowledge these can be had in 177/22/25.



A lot going on in one pic! Well designed and performed. This is a regulated gun right, and the adjustment thereof is that chromed wheel center picture. From what i´ve experienced thus far that reg works reasonably well, making for at least decent repeatability shot to shot. Yes, in turn a Foster fitting to fill the thing up. In turn a small pic rail to fit your bi-pod or whatever and in turn the adapter for the buddy bottle, which is out of aluminium stock.
..aaaand the trigger.
The god awful trigger. You´ll see me get back to this, over and over but the truth remains. In stock form it absolutely sucks.
Now. In all fairness the Throne Gen 2 certainly doesn´t cost of an Impact either, on the contrary. More along less than half even.. That being said should downright design flaws be forgiven?
U guys tell me, but.. stay with me here and we´ll get to the bottom of it. Mark!!! The triggers on the earlier Kral guns ain´t exactly a "trigger fest" either, something that has been handled since. (Why this *rap surprise me even more)



So. A trigger blade midships and then the sear group on that actual receiver block.. and a rod that runs between. The actual "stops" on said rod being regular small e-clips.
Setup such that the trigger first up is a single stage and in turn is like pushing a rock across a gravel road.
So. At first all i had i mind was making this thing at least a 2 stage jobbie, which i set out to ponder. But.. yeah well, read on..

[Racing]

Yep. The stop for the trigger return spring, you guessed it. Whatever...
Cutting fresh grooves into that rod, dirt simple. Did so with a hacksaw blade on the lathe, but that lathe could sure be a power drill or whatever along the same lines just as well.

But.



Hm. The stock hammer spring is so meek it´s a joke. For whatever reason. What that brings is that using JSB 25,4 grain pills (of whatever variety) and it ALL maxed out i saw like 730-ish across the chrono. This with hammer spring adjuster maxed out, with the power adjuster maxed out and regulator pressure set to 150 bar. So what i ended up doing was simply adding a second hammer spring to fit within the first, and that sure made things move a tad. Now i had like 920 out the snout of the thing.

I mention this as i presume some, if not most, would be content with that as it´s a muzzle speed where hollow points start opening up for real. Quick, dirty simple and effective in short.



Ok. So grooves were out. Thing is, that rod is of 3mm diameter so i simply threaded the thing. That done as i started to adjust around.. nah. It dawned on me how much that rod flex as it´s used in push rather than pull. NOT ideal..



Right. Weak stock hammer spring, and that there in turn is the hammer. Which is a solid lump of steel that weighs in at 60 grams. You do the math. No wonder...



On the other hand, happy to report that porting the thing out (this is a regulated gun remember) is certainly doable and that stock M6 allen screw that seals the whole thing off can easily be drilled out to 6,5mm and threaded M8. Yes, there´s material to cope with that - just. This of course also brings that internal passages/transfer ports can be modified accordingly, within reason for a 22cal as you in essence see fit.
Neat!



They call it a "pre chamber", which is nothing but different wording for a plenum. Something ALL regulated guns benefit from. This one though.. Hm.. "Impact killer". Not so much as stated, however that there thing is of just shy of 34cc´s. Compare that to the early Mk1 and Mk II Impacts (before the power plenums) and i believe you´ll get an idea.
In my case, it´ll suffice to reach "platform Uno" but.. yeah well...



Right. So i live in the land of FX right. Due that i´ve come into a spring that´s a dead ringer for the one used on the Impact, and it´s a good solid solution, that i´ve come to use in many a build.
In this case though it kind of doubles as.. that "guide" for the stock spring cut into the hammer is just a tad larger in dia of the hole needed for an "Impact" spring.
Though. Using one right off will result in the hammer adjuster setup binding and the hammer becomes impossible to cock. Ergo as i had no idea where i was at i drilled that hammer out "to deep" on intention as that handed me the poss of just installing shims until i was all good with total installed length.
So.. hole 10.00mm in dia drilled 18mm deep. Ended up turning an aluminium shim of 5mm to make it all come together.



Used a 10mm endmill on the lathe, and as you can see yourselves.. not all that much material left. As you can imagine this makes the hammer quite a bit lighter while at it.



Ah! The heart n soul of the piece! Although the Gen 2 sports an entirely different valve vs the original Throne i still have to say that i wonder..
First up it uses a separate seat out of some white plastic that carries a groove on its outer circumferance to sport an o-ring for sealing against the valve body.
Welp, as i´m after higher muzzle energies that´s just plain out cause if there´s one thing i do NOT need it´s a semi jumping around valve seat.
Btw. The same setup and system is seen on many Hatsan guns these days.
..and did i ever try different seat designs out... did i EVAR!

The other thing here is that the various ports, transfer ports and what have you are by FAR maxed out for a 22 cal. In turn the valve seat through diameter is of a decent 6,0mm´s but.. then the actual exhaust passage beneath it is too? Well that´s a first!
Btw. Yes.
This valve, as you can see yourself, has been ported. Not to the extreme though by any measure. Then..the poppet is out of hardened steel.
This brings that to modify it it helps to anneal it before cutting into it (hammer is too btw). Cause see.. poppet outer diameter is a full 8mm for some bloody reason?
Why is this an issue? Well, the more area the pressure within the tank has to "work on" as far as the poppet, the harder the poppet will have to break away from its seat. Yes. Every tenth of a millimeter helps here..
Thus a 6mm through hole on an 8mm poppet is strangling the gun, at least the rather massive need for more hammer spring to overcome the situation.
What´s more, seeing the materials involved in MY case i could easily set through to 7mm and poppet to 7,5 and get away with it.. and gain loads doing so.
Also mark the way less sturdy return spring and in turn the modified "nut" that keeps the return spring, and thus poppet, in place.

[Racing]

Ah! Trigger! What i ended up doing was tossing the entire stock setup in the bin and replace it with a 4mm rod out of spring steel. Yep. Threaded that, and for the return spring (the stock job followed the 3mm axle into the bin) i opted to turn a small "bump stop" which is completely adjustable via a small set screw on the side of it.



The one thing i had to modify on the gun to pull this off was to increase the through hole diameter for the "push part" of the sear assy to 5mm flat. That was it..
Yep. Threaded the end of the rod M4 aaaaand....



Up front a blade, sorts of, is called for why i heated the snot out of the end of the rod with a torch and brought out the BFH (big effing hammer). Then drilled the 2mm hole needed for the pin that connects the trigger blade to the rod and done deal.



Sry bout the out of focus, but that there is the adjustable bump stop for the trigger return spring.

NOW we were cookin! Albeit the sear assy carries one lone stopper screw for adjustment, now i could at least get within a decent mark of having myself a USABLE two stage job.
THANK YOU!

The thing here is that the stock trigger is so bad it´s the one thing that holds this gun back. The NICE part is that it´s very very doable to improve on it for the hobbyist and in all honesty end up with a gun performing WAY over its paygrade in my opinion.
So..
Redo the trigger assy and install a second hammer spring and you´re in business i´d say.

Where i was at currently though, as it turned out after a little tuning and general noodling around, was sending them 25,4 pills downrange at approx 1040fps. A marked difference, and i have NO intentions coming to a halt there.
A few things need to be adressed as i push on, but on a general whole? Yes. "platform Uno" has been reached as far as i´m concerned.

The Throne Gen 2 (aka Ixia in Britain) is a very nice bullpup for very reasonable money. That´s my call on it at least, which i hope i can stand by long term too. Thing here is.. it is a "mid priced PCP" and as such.. it friggin SCREAMS for a decent trigger, and that done you can start playing around with the accuracy inherent for real.
In turn up the power to them 920.. different gun all together in my book.



Seeing that a few courtesy pics i believe are in order. Me i run both ways, i can certainly take to "space guns" like the Impact or Throne while at the same time.. i´m at heart a walnut and steel guy.



Btw. Yes. The loading lever setup is completely ambi.



Shroud for some reason threads into the main body, and in turn ends with a sorts of moderator. There´s those that have "converted" this to a free floating shroud claiming improved accuracy.
That said the choking action of the stock barrel on the Gen 2 is absolutely MASSIVE! Insane amounts! As i see it though the industry is just moving more and more vs the use of so called slugs.. so no-can-do. For starters i´ve due that chopped off approx 15mm at the end of the barrel, cutting fresh 1/2" UNF thread to it too.
Yes. That DID already improve accuracy no doubt.
Anyways. Shroud. Free floating. Sure. I´m willing to try that.



Yes. This is a working gun, hence the Yukon IR setup on there.



Aluminium. It should be noted that the Throne is quite obviously a heavier gun than the Impact. Then again AFAIK a carbon fibre bottle is even offered as an option. Will look into that...

[BLAHUT]

I do not understand what you are doing, but fantastic job, looks great >>>

[Racing]

Uhu. System/bottle pressure and then reg pressure. As noted easily adjusted.



Kral indeed. The magazines are dead ringers, just the Reximex ones aren´t as deep. I´ve tried 33,9 grain pills and they just baaaarely won´t fit. In my case that brings either lighter pills to pass 100J or putting the mags on the mill.. Haven´t decided yet.

Moderator?
Yes. It sports an ATTEMPT of one. Works fine at say 12fpe but becomes a joke as muzzle speeds go up by much as.. there´s basically a hair curler and some foam in there. When i saw inxs of approx 900fps what happend was that i started getting irregular printing on target.
Jumped around like a one legged chicken there for a while before grasping what was going on. Enough of that *rap already..
As noted my barrel has been cut back approx 15mm and this leaves me with approx 100mm of free length within the shroud to act as moderator.
Now.
I´ve played around with that there on PCP guns a bit and have arrived on a cheap, simple and very effective manner to handle moderator innards.
Aluminium net and regular kitchen rag/cloth!



This holds true for basically any moderator out there, they do NOT have to sport the innards of their powder burning counterpart. As i´ve ot a full 100mm i believe i´ll add a washer in there too, to get like two chambers. A regular moderator atop that = dead quiet. Even at 100J. We´re talkin mouse fart quiet here...



Yeah. So wrap that net around some sorts of mandrel and go at it. I more often than not use either an 8mm one or a 10mm one. In this particular case the latter.



Yep. When done, provision for an added moderator and trust me.. at 100J you want one.

[Racing]

In short, taking the first baby steps of tuning the living snot out of it.

[Racing]

Loads has happened.



So, i guess to most this is where it turns ugly. A world of hurt even cause as you open ports size up it´s all good.. ´til you hit the transfer port of the barrel.
Issue at hand is that the outer rearward o-ring groove comes first right, before the inner o-ring to seal vs the probe, and that brings that as the hole for the port on the block is placed as it is.. leak time.
In short that rearward o-ring simply isn´t supported anymore and.. you get the idea.

Gave this some thought, out the calipers came..loads of coffee.. you all know how it works. What i ended up doing was a "toss n turn" in as much that i turned a new entry for the barrel that switches places for that inner vs outer o-ring, which saves the day. Off the existing barrel end came and..
Then a very simple jig and braze the new entry onto the barrel. Net result in the pic.
Yep. Did the trick.

Now. I started reaping the results of the effort.. saw steady 1040 using 25,4´s but.. more importantly i saw approx 920-930 using 33.9 grain JSB pellets, and that´s saying something.
Point being that while the lighter bullets are reaching their "roof" as i do NOT want to go super sonic at any cost.. the natural evolution of things here is.. you guessed it, 33,9 grain pills.
A boolit weight otherwise often associated with 25cal. What that hands me, for step one, is room for growth.



The Throne uses a shroud and shrouds are.. effective at keeping noise within realms. Especially so when teamed up with a decent moderator.
Most shrouds "float" on the barrel, which it does not on the Throne for whatever reason. I was told that making it so, float that is, could very well increase accuracy.
So yeah. Turned that there insert out of PEEK aaaand.. that´s how i found out that the stock job isn´t cut to the point where it is all linear.
Whatever.. I´m going to spawn on this i believe. We´ll see where that thinking takes me.

An issue using 33,9´s though is that the mags are simply not deep enough to take them. Yup. I loaded them one by one.. So set both the chassis and the lid on the circular table on the mill.
..which works. Make sure to use a 6mm end mill bit. As i pulled that off i´ve now got like.. MAYBE 1mm more to play with and.. i dunno if that´ll suffice to be honest.
Where we´re at i have no IDEA where this is going to stop why it very well might be i need even more room. Now. The thing here is that these Reximex mags are the exact same deal as the Kral ones (same ppl run both companies) it´s just that the Kral ones are a good deal deeper.
Might it be an idea to mill the cutout on the chassis to take Kral mags? Just to be able to cater to way heavier pills? Well, it might but doing so, again, brings a whole WORLD of hurt as what´ll have to "ride with" that is increase probe throw. Elementary really..
Could that be settled by moving the fulcrum point on the loading lever?
Dunno, haven´t gotten around to that just yet.

On that i´ve had the guns first true failure. That loading lever works via an arm that´s connected to like a piston running within the chassis and the issue is that the arm is connected to the lever via a very small countersunk screw. Can´t recall the top of my head if M3 or M4.
No matter, the threads for that thing failed and this thus needs to be addressed.

Anyways.
920-930 using 33,9´s and the question i´ve got is if i´m not stonewalling here. That´s what´s there to be had with that current config?
I don´t know but...
There´s always a but right. As i´ve touched upon the, in relative terms, limited plenum volume might very well be an issue at this level.



Idea here is that there´s room for growth upwards on the gun. Thus i made the holes, to be threaded M20*1, offset and thereby being able to shove the thing upwards on the chassis.
This will also bring that the clearance needed, or cutting back on the plastic lower, will be kept to a minimum.
Yep.
That´s approx 100cc´s of plenum volume right there.

[Racing]

Lots has happened.



In an effort to turn every stone i checked the barrel for runout. Indeed half a millimeter off.





Like a number of other bullpups the Throne Gen 2 sports an attempt of a moderator at the end of the shroud. Sry to say the original offering is a d*mn joke, and as exit speeds climb out the innards of that come.
So. I´ve come to pull a setup where i roll a piece of aluminium "net" around a mandrel and use that to be able to run way closer tolerances vs stock, on many a gun. To make that center.. see above.
It´s just aluminium so it cuts easy on the lathe.



Yeah, and time for that one isn´t it? Me thinks very much so thank you very much..
On that note the presence of plenum volume, the amount of it more to the point, becomes more and more imperative the higher the exit energies really. So this one´s made to handle approx 100cc´s.
When i got the stock offering off of there it turned out it is of a mere 25cc´s, which kind of explains why i came to stonewall using 34 grain pills that ran 920-930.
No more of that.



Kral and Reximex have the same owners, in reality, and it shows. Mags for them are deadringers, it´s just that in THIS case the Kral mags are a full approx 3mm deeper - which caters way better to what i have in mind.
As noted above to make something as generic as 33.9 grain JSB pellets fit took putting the stock mags on the mill..
Thus. I´ll cut the receiver to take Kral mags instead, that takes 40 grain pills with ease.



Right. I want to stress this in an as anal fashion i can, the fabrication of pressure vessels are NOT for the novice. No. I don´t CARE that you "own a good MIG welder".
Seamless high pressure tubing, threaded ends that are TIG welded in place out of SIS-2172. Nope. Not hard, but you HAVE to know what your´re doing to pull this off.



A bit of inletting needed, albeit the entry and exit of the plenum has been set way off center. I just "blue flamed" the piece while at it, will hot tank the thing as i fire the pot up one of these days. (Which basically anneals the piece while at it)

[Racing]

The trigger assy is a spring loaded balanced unit. I can appreciate that it might strike the average Joe as involved, i truly do, but if you first up take a load of pics of taking the thing apart and second of all take to heart where the three "visible" pieces go before so you´ll be all good.
The cast pieces are installed "as is" by Reximex why yes.. it pays off to polish the contact surfaces. No doubt.



The hear of the system then, the valve. Sorry to say the stock, but modified, poppet broke just beneath the seat. Tumbling around in there, as it showed, sure played havoc.
Anyways.
As seat diameter increases, for more air through it, the stock retension "nut" for the poppet return spring simply doesn´t cut it. Stock it sports 4pcs of 3mm holes and.. that will become an issue.
So i turned a new one, one that i put on the mill and cut like windows out of. Got a bit TO engaged there i believe... LOL
No matter. It´ll work.



So yeah. A new retension nut out of 7075T651 aluminium and in turn a poppet out of SIS-2241 stainless steel.



Ditto for the actual housing, 2241. Where i was at it was either "overhaul" (read - sleeve) the stock housing or order e fresh one. OOOOR.. make one. Where we ended up.. well, now you know. The grooves for the o-rings came in a little off to be honest but nevermind.. it´ll work no matter.



Poppet protrusion is set to 5mm flat. More shouldn´t be needed, but that said i´m also wondering why so little is debated on the flow across the actual poppet and seat on PCP guns. That we DO get a pressure drop across.. yes we do. Q is to what amount?
I´m giving thought to cutting a window into the valve housing to cut "relief cuts" on the exhaust port from "behind". Much as would you a valve seat on a race car engine.
We´ll see about that tho..



Yeah. Rough cut only, but that´s 2,9mm of material gone to make the receiver take Kral mags upcoming.



Yep. Sure works. Have done a mockup of the entire thing, set into the new plenum and all, and it looks like it´ll work no doubt.

Now for the home stretch of all of this.
If not clear by now the idea here is to come to use pills ranging from 30 to 40 grains all done, and be able to shove them out the snout at "usable" speeds for hollow point slugs in 22cal.

[Racing]

Yeah baby! Pressure testing, pressure testing is good. Not that i´m not confident in what i do, no matter it still comes to shove at some point so.. Yes. Took it to an easy 300 actually.
Anyways.





Yep. The last cuts n bruises needs to be taken as far as making them Kral mags fit, but where it stands it´s usable at least. As a tool, and as a tool first outing in its new guise handed at least 2 rats and then yet another one tonight.

Is all golden?
No. I´m basically pushing the same power as previous, just at WAY lower regulator pressure. Fact is, there´s no point even going past 150 bar, doesn´t add squat.
In short?
I need more hammer. It´s that simple, and we´ll get there. Rest assured.

Now. That said. I had previously had a bit of.. disappointment in the accuracy dept. Not that it was poor, it just wasn´t stellar. Now i got to try the Knock outs out as 218 diameter pills aaaaaand....
Yes ma´m, thank you very much! Now we´re cooking! Now this thing prints a mag worth (albeit single loaded at the moment) as one ragged hole of say 6,5-7mm diameter at 20 meters.
We´re good to go in other words.

[Geezerhood]

At first glance, very interesting! I will have to come back and read / see it all later. They appear to be better built than the also made in Turkey Hatsan airguns.

[Nobade]

Fascinating writeup. Thank you for taking the time to do it.

[Racing]

Having experience with the Hatsan guns, a resounding yes.

The Kral and Reximex guns to my experience are way more on par. Own a few of all of them and sorry to say the Hatsans are a crap game at best.

Does that mean and bring that the Kral and Reximex guns are without issues?
Nope. But at least you won´t be stuck with a barrel that´s off and won´t shoot. On that note it is just beyond me why Hatsan does their work like that. Would they step up the game and get their QC control together so all them "lemons" never left the factory until corrected, imagine what that´d do for the brand.

On that note tho i picked up yet another Reximex.
A Reximex Daystar in walnut, which hands on is one of the ever best looking PCP i´ve ever encountered.





Daystar on some markets known as the "Pretensis".



That the Turks know their way around walnut i guess we can all agree on.



By use of the "power adjuster" inherent with both the Kral and Reximex guns, that and tightening up the adjuster for the hammer spring, this 25cal can be had to deliver approx 65J right out of the box.
Impressive.

Intended as a pure "hunting PCP" (in many countries that´s what they´re left with) it lacks a regulator, but in all honesty the thing will stack pellets, literally, at 20m as is.
Will it benefit from one though? Most likely, but using the piece as is sure works for starters too.

Without drawbacks/design flaws? Of course not, but these are minor and can sure be corrected.

Like the Throne though out of the box the trigger is just dreadful. I mean, beyond usable. Remarkable as this unit sports the same spring loaded multi piece "weighed" setup as does the Throne.