9x21

[barnetmill]

I have had three CZ52's and I still have two and an extra slide. I have barrels in 9x19, 9x23, and 7.62x25. I have three strengths of recoil springs. I have spare rollers and firing pins. I have fired a lot of hot 38 super level loads. I did break one firing pin. I have tested the hammer drop on all three guns and they all function properly, but I don't rely on it. I only use it to drop the hammer on an empty chamber.
Tim

I would lower the hammer manually. I have not touched mine in years.

[TD1886]

I have to check the model again, but one of my former spanish pistols in 9mm largo had a barrel with a recoil linkage without a swinging link and is more like the browning hipower. Still not a good idea to shoot a lot of .38 super in it. I had to file a little to get it to accept the semi-rim of the .38 ACP round.
Photo of what the linkage looks like from a star modelo super.
It always give me a bad case of hammer bite.
The take down included a swinging lever.
Attachment 313667

Here is a little more on:
Super A

From 1946 onward, Star produced a Super version of the model A pistol. Besides the improvements from the model 1940, this as usual consisted of a number of upgrades to the weapon. Mostly the swinging link was replaced with a Sig 210 (or modern Star) style closed cam path integral to the barrel. Related to this, a full-length guide rod with captive spring, and a quick takedown lever were added as well. All of these models have a magazine safety, but one different from the previous S variants, and the extractor is modified to double as a loaded-chamber indicator. Additionally, the sights are improved in shape to make them easier to see, and minor changes were made to the trigger system. These were also apparently exported for extensive foreign military use.
Model Super A

Most Super pistols, of all series, were not labeled with the overall series letter. This has caused no end of confusion, and a number of guns are now sold at surplus as the Modelo Super, or even as model Bs, that are actually model As.

As there are aftermarket barrels available to allow firing of 9 mm Luger/Parabellum ammunition in Largo (model A) pistols, caliber is no longer a completely sure way to identify Super marked pistols. Use care when trying to ID these pistols.



Model AS – Cal 38

A small number — reportedly 60 — model AS pistols were marked "Cal 38" on the side and barrel hood. Per the importer, this indicates they are able to safely chamber and fire .38 Super ammunition. It is unclear if this is the primary chambering, or they are simply upgraded 9 mm Largo dimensioned chambers able to handle the extra pressure.
http://star-firearms.com/firearms/guns/a/

According to the website you provided they were marked 38 ACP. I don't believe they were stamped 38 Super. If the importer said they could safely fired 38 Super I believe him to be wrong. Let me investigate it more thoroughly.

[barnetmill]

According to the website you provided they were marked 38 ACP. I don't believe they were stamped 38 Super. If the importer said they could safely fired 38 Super I believe him to be wrong. Let me investigate it more thoroughly.

safety is one thing vs will the gun be damaged is another. It also depends on which 38 super loads you are firing. Not all .38 super loads were fully up to spec IIRC and this may have something to do with presence of older .38 ACP guns and someone firing 38 super in them regardless. Under the worst circumstance the shooter is likely not to be seriously injured, but the guns might not stand up to the increase battering of the more powerfully loaded rounds.

[Battis]

Keeping the calibers and guns straight is a chore.
I have:
Astra 600 - 9mm Luger
Astra 400 - 9mm Largo and 38 ACP.
Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer - 38 ACP. I use 38 Super brass, but not 38 Super data.
Star Super SA - marked 9mm on the slide, and 9mm Largo on the barrel. I never tried 38 ACP in it.
The Star Super came with a 9mm Luger barrel, no markings at all.

I probably missed it in the posts, but I'm still wondering what gun was designed for 9x21. Too long for a 9mm Luger, too short for a 9mm Largo (or can it be used as a 9mm Largo short?)

[barnetmill]

Keeping the calibers and guns straight is a chore.
I have:
Astra 600 - 9mm Luger
Astra 400 - 9mm Largo and 38 ACP.
Colt 1903 Pocket Hammer - 38 ACP. I use 38 Super brass, but not 38 Super data.
Star Super SA - marked 9mm on the slide, and 9mm Largo on the barrel. I never tried 38 ACP in it.
The Star Super came with a 9mm Luger barrel, no markings at all.

I probably missed it in the posts, but I'm still wondering what gun was designed for 9x21. Too long for a 9mm Luger, too short for a 9mm Largo (or can it be used as a 9mm Largo short?)

wiki
The 9×21mm pistol cartridge (also known as the 9×21mm IMI, 9mm IMI, 9x21mm Italian, or 9mm Italian) was designed by Jager (Loano, Italy), then adopted and commercialised by Israel Military Industries for those jurisdictions where military service cartridges, like the 9×19mm Parabellum, are or were illegal for civilian purchase (i.e. Italy, France, Brazil, and Mexico).
The overall length of the 9x19 and 9x21 are close, but the cases are different.


The cartridge case is also handloaded for competition since it may feed better than the .38 super case due to being truly rimless.
As it is a rimless round, the 9×21mm is used in USPSA/IPSC competition in open class firearms. A rimless case is preferred because, unlike semi-rimmed or rimmed cartridges, it will not tend to lock together with other rounds in a double-column magazine, resulting in a malfunction. As other .38 Super–based rimless cartridges became available, the 9×21mm decreased in popularity in the United States for competition use, but it is still widely used in many other parts of the world.

Synonyms

9×21mm IMI
9 mm IMI
9mm Italiano
Winchester 9×21mm WIN [124-gr. bullet]

I believe the case can be used to duplicate 9mm largo loads without trimming the case.

[Battis]

I've read that and alot of other internet info. So, it looks like the 9x21 was not designed for any particular gun. You can look at a 9x23 and say, yep, that's used in the Astra 400, or Star Super, etc. You can't do that with the 9x21.
If you're reloading the 9x21, what do you use it in?

it is still widely used in many other parts of the world.

In what gun? That's all I'm asking.

Found one:
https://www.recoilweb.com/imported-9...er-144513.html

[barnetmill]

I've read that and alot of other internet info. So, it looks like the 9x21 was not designed for any particular gun. You can look at a 9x23 and say, yep, that's used in the Astra 400, or Star Super, etc. You can't do that with the 9x21.
If you're reloading the 9x21, what do you use it in?

In what gun? That's all I'm asking.

Found one:
https://www.recoilweb.com/imported-9...er-144513.html

It was used in guns that were originally designed to for the 9x19 Luger parabellum cartridge that had the chambers altered to use the 9x21. Many countries will not allow their citizens to own guns in military cartridges.

[Texas by God]

Is the 9x21 the same as the 9mm Ultra?


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[bruce drake]

A company called Robertsons once offered 9x19 barrels for Star Super pistols (in the 90s and before I own a Star Super myself) but I haven't seen any new or used barrels on Ebay or Gunbroker for a while.

I just bought a 500 round box of 9 Super Comp brass from (rimless 38 Super) Starline several years ago and its been my brass for my 9mm Largo chambered pistol since. I use RCBA 38 Super dies with a 9x19 shellholder

regarding 9x21 brass, if Starline make 9x21...which they do....buy them. best brass manufacturer in the country.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/9x21-brass
9x21 can be reloaded using 9x19 dies and the cartridge was basically created for countries (like Mexico and Italy) that don't allow "military cartridges" like 9x19 for its civilian subjects to own. It was designed to fit within standard 9x19 magazines (someone posted a picture earlier showing the identical OAL) and most 9x19 pistol barrels can simply be cut 2mm deeper in the chamber to allow it to be used with the 9x21 cartridge. Any rechambered 9x21 pistol can no longer use the 9x19 cartridge as both cartridges are designed to be headspaced off the case mouth.

[bruce drake]

[QUOTE=Texas by God;5573704]Is the 9x21 the same as the 9mm Ultra?
Sorry. No.
That's a German-made hot .380 ACP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9718mm_Ultra

[Texas by God]

Thanks, Bruce Drake.
My rememberer is skipping.


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