On a non expanding cast bullet does anyone believe that Meplat diameter influences wound path and size.
To put it country simple if we have a 44 caliber bullet traveling 850 fps of a given weight does it make any difference if the Meplat is .250" diameter or .300" diameter or .350" diameter when it comes to wounding capabilities?
We'd probably have to do a lot of field testing to know for sure - but about 30 years ago, I shot a couple of does in one season using straight linotype pills loaded pretty hot in my 1895 Marlin 45-70; both deer took two shots each before they fell down. This boolit was from a 455 gr NEI mold with a big meplat that's almost a wadcutter - I seem to recall it is .400 in diameter. I still have the mold but don't use it anymore.Originally Posted by 44MAG#1
I was about 30 yds away and assumed I'd missed the first shot on both animals. However, the forensic exams showed nice clean .45 caliber holes in one side and out the other. I quit using those bullets on deer and went to a JSP afterwards. So you may be right that the meplat doesn't mean much but other variables can make all the difference in the world. Those straight linotypes might be the cat's meow on big game but our small Texas deer didn't flinch - even though they were walking dead.
HWOOLDRIDGE said, "So you may be right that the meplat doesn't mean much.'
I didn't say that. I didn't reveal how I believe. Just ask what others believe.
From my DAO .44, a 230 grain wadcutter at 625 f/s gives adequate penetration (18"+) and about as much self-defense wound mass as you can get from a non-expanding .44 boolit (or an expanding .38 or 9mm JHP for that matter). It also gives all the recoil I need. More velocity would increase recoil without adding much to the effective wound mass.
VIRGEL (from VIRtual GELatin) is a calculator for estimating penetration and wound mass for handgun ammo. There's an Android version on the Google Play Store and a version here for any computer or phone with a web browser.
Last edited by pettypace; 09-05-2022 at 10:40 AM.
"Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth.” --George Orwell
thanks pettypace
Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.
I had to reread what you wrote. At first I thought you were saying it would be difficult to find a bobbed hammer for the Charter. I then realized you were talking about a bobbed hammer for the others. Because I had already looked it up, I figured I might as well post it anyway, just in case someone is looking for a Charter hammer.
$30 https://charterfirearms.com/collecti...-action-hammer
I've had similar results with 2 does but on the other end of the spectrum. I was using a 6.5 Creedmoore pushing 129 Hornaday Spire Points at the top end of the load data and both deer just stood there for 2-3 shots each. But in my case it looked like the bullets weren't adequate for the velocity as many of the shots didn't exit. I think the range was about 80 yards. On the other hand I've observed golf ball sized holes in deer with 32 Winchester Special at 2200 fps with a RF nose and bigger holes with a 45 Colt carbine going 1600 fps with a .300 meplat.
I don't think there is enough material in those boolits to expand large enough to make the holes as big as they were in those deer and therefore the flat nose must impart additional terminal affect.
I've always used softer alloys though like 50/50 coww-pure and 25/50 coww-pure and never felt the need to use hollow points for hunting. Maybe hollow points start to shine under 1000 fps ?
Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.
So, does the Meplat diameter matter or not. If it does than going larger is supported by using a wadcutter simply because VIRGEL??????? supports it over the supposedly smaller Meplat of the truncated cone bullet or if not supported by that why does the wadcutter have such a much better wound volumn?
It seems to me that if Meplat diameter doesn't matter what does it mean?
A bigger meplat may make a bigger difference at normal handgun velocities (tip of the hat to Elmer), but not so much at rifle speeds. If a pistol caliber won’t expand reliably, then go for large caliber and meplat; rifles not so much…
When I was a teenager, a good friend of mine was give a sporterized 7x57 Mauser by his dad - but the only ammo we could find at the time was FMJ; I seem to recall they were 175 gr. Alfred shot one doe broadside but with zero expansion available, he started aiming for quartering or endwise shots. Extending the wound channel through the body had an impressive anchoring effect - most dropped in their tracks or ran only a short distance. He abandoned the practice after we found some JSP cartridges but the FMJ worked pretty well if he did his part. Those military rounds had no meplat at all but they were moving along at whatever clip is normal for 7x57 ammo.
Of course mepat size matters. If it didn't, we would all be using small flat noses. I think the discrepancy is in the relatively small differences within a caliber. A 44 Keith is ballpark .275" for example, and a 44 WFN might be .350". That isn't a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.
20 ounce Charter Arms .44 Special "Boomer", Have one myself. PS: I shoot primarily 200 grain DEWS
“You should tell someone what you know. There should be a history, so that men can learn from it.
He smiled. “Men do not learn from history. Each generation believes itself brighter than the last, each believes it can survive the mistakes of the older ones. Each discovers each old thing and they throw up their hands and say ‘See! Look what I have found! Look upon what I know!’ And each believes it is something new.
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The Californios
That’s a difference of 27%, or slightly larger than the difference between a .429 and a .357 bullet.
I’d say that’s bordering on huge.
That's .075". Having a 44 expand to .750", a gain of almost 1/2", now that is significant.
Comparing a Keith SWC to a WFN, the WFN makes a bigger hole, but it isn't much. Maybe a 50 cal hole rather than a 45 cal hole.
If the other Meplat diameters are insignificant then the VIRGEL????? would only need Wadcutter RN, and MSH. Round Ball is a "Round Nose" or the last ones I saw were.
Who cares what some computer simulator says. I'm speaking from real world killing animals. It makes a difference, but it isn't earth shattering by any means.
This sounds like the voice of experience speaking... Could you give some details about just what goes bad on the Bulldogs? Or is just a general loosening up of things that ought not be loose? Also, what do you consider to be "mild loads" for a Bulldog?
"Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth.” --George Orwell
It's a little more complicated than that.
People have different ideas of what a lot of shooting is and the same with loading levels. 250 rounds a year out of one Bulldog and anything more than a 250 grain bullet over 17 grains of 2400 is "a lot" in my book. So it's easy to say "they shoot loose easy", but with how much of what load? Makes a difference.
Charter has been around for a while, and during that time has had more than one owner. And the owner's idea of quality changed from time to time.
Basically, if it says "Charter Arms" on the barrel it's probably fine. Charco and Charter 2000 not so much.
Today's Charter Arms has customer service that no one can top. Last time I used it they wanted $49.95 to fix anything that was fixable and if it was sent in by an FFL then it was no charge. You pay to ship, they send it back free.
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
(I think, therefore I'm armed.)
If Charter Arms would add a front sight, cut 3/4 of an inch off the bottom of the grip, and get it on the list of state approved handguns, I'd be sorely tempted to buy a Boomer. As it is, the "Approved Firearms Roster" has over 40 different models of Charter Arms .38 Specials (most differing only in model number and finish) and only three .44's (not including the Boomer).
20 ounce Charter Arms .44 Special "Boomer", Have one myself. PS: I shoot primarily 200 grain DEWS
I don't understand the rationale for not having a front sight. Was Charter Arms just trying to sell laser sight grips or do they really think a front sight is of no use on a 2-inch .44?
"Totalitarianism demands, in fact, the continuous alteration of the past, and in the long run probably demands a disbelief in the very existence of objective truth.” --George Orwell
The Boomer is not for everyone. It's a get off me piece. Lack of front sight, along with bobbed hammer makes it a snag free pocket piece. Grips are changeable. Altamont offers smaller grips, along the lines of the original J frame style. I have a set for my BD. Makes it more pocketable but less controllable.
Winelover
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