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Thread: 45-70 suggestions

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    45-70 suggestions

    Let me have some cast boolit suggestions for my 45-70 lever guns. I have a Browning 86 and a Marlin 95 (336). i am sure some of you have had lots of experience with this cartridge. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    I'd encourage boolits on the lighter side like 350s.
    The recoil of the heavier ones are something to behold in the lighter rifles.

    And if you're not doing some serious long range shooting,
    I'd also be staying down around the trapdoor speeds and loads.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Arsenals 460330 a 330 gr, lyman's 457122 is the same as Arsenals but with a hollow point and lyman's 457193 it's a 405 gr. Marlins don't feed the 500 gr bullets through the action but the browning should be fine.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I USE A LEE, 515gr, FN, C57500F .457 IN PURE LEAD, OL 2.55, 27 gr 5744, IN MY 45/70 GUIDE GUN , THIS IS MY BEAR LOAD>
    I USE THE SAME BULLET, IN MY 45/60, WITH ABOUT 32 grs OF BLACKHORN209, FOR DEER> YOU MIGHT WANT TO START WITH A LOWER POWDER AMOUNT AND SEE, YOUR GUN WILL TELL YOU WHAT IT LIKES>> BOTH FEED THROUGH THE GUN WITH NO PROBLEMS WITH THIS BULLET>>

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    I have a range of boolits for my Pedersoli 1886 ranging from a 260gn 'squib' to 500gn. Recoil is mild with typical trapdoor loads.



    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    45/70 is one fo my favorite calibers, been going to some gong shoots using my 1886 Browning and 1875 Sharps. Have a few loads I have worked up over the years that have been accurate in my rifles.
    Lyman 457193, about 410gr depending on alloy. 24gr/ alliant 2400 or 28gr AA5744- duplicates the original gov't 45-70-405 load
    Lyman 457122 HP, 340gr in 30/1, 26gr/ alliant 2400 or 30gr AA5744- my deer hunting load
    Lyman 457125, about 525gr, 27gr/AA5744, long range load for the Sharps, holds 2moa or better out to 500 yards which is the longest range I have
    tested it so far. This load shoots well in the 1886 also but the recoil with the curved buttplate is pretty bad.
    Lyman 457191, 300gr, still working on loads with this. Have been shooting 12gr Unique under this boolit for gongs out to 200yards and have won a couple of matches with it. It is very pleasant to shoot, recoil (calculated) is about 1/3 of the 457193 loads.
    I have not achieved good results in the 45/70 with any powders slower than the 4198's with Trapdoor type loads which is all I shoot now, slower powders have shown extreme velocity spreads.

  7. #7
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    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
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    I shoot up to 500grain boolits in my 1895. Staying in the 45/70 loads, the recoil is reasonable.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    These are derived from a LEE 459-405-HB mold (I altered to flatter nose and flat base) short one is 335 grain the bigger one neat 405 grain
    mostly shoot the 335 grain in my Chiappa 86 - duplex load, 6 grains 4227 + 64 grains of home rolled FFFg , + 40 thou HDPE wad .... gets a neat 1550fps
    Last edited by indian joe; 09-19-2022 at 06:40 AM. Reason: checked my load book 1550fps

  9. #9
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    Once I started shooting the RCBS 405, I sold off the rest of my molds. It is exceptionally accurate in my 1895's and drops animals in their tracks.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    I cast just 2 types of bullets that does everything I need. RCBS 300g gas checked and RCBS 405 gas checked. The 300g's, actually 325g, are used at near max velocities with aa2200 data powder and the 405's with 34g of IMR 4198. Accuracy is really good.
    These loads are no longer fun to shoot for me, and I will be sorting out some trapdoor loads using Unique powder, so I don't really need gas checks anymore. One less step to deal with.
    I will be looking for a RCBS 325 plain base bullet mold, and I think that will fit all of my needs.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    Back when I was shooting/hunting with .45-70's, I used the 330gr Gould hollow point boolit (Lyman mold 457122) - which was both effective on game and a LOT more comfortable to shoot than 450 or 500 grain boolits.

    For those who don't cast their own, State Line sells cast/lubed versions: https://statelinebullets.com/shop/ca...30-gr-rnfp-hp/
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    I shoot the Lyman Gould bullet, 457122, paper patched over the Elmer Kieth load of 4895. Cast in almost any alloy it can be sized down to .454 and the wrapped in two layers of 10lb bond paper. I wet the patch before it is applied. Once the patch is dry I lube with Lee liquid alox then run through a Lee .459 push through sizer die. The Kieth load gives me just under 1700 fps out of my Browning 1886 rifle. I use a sizer die with the de-priming stem removed to apply a taper crimp to secure the bullet without crimping into the paper patch. My experience with paper patching in Marlin 1895s is not good. The narrow rifling even in the early 336 derived 1895s does not consistently cut the patch like the broader rifling of the Browning.
    Bill

  13. #13
    Boolit Master RKJ's Avatar
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    I shoot an MP molds 350 HP out of my GG and like it a lot. I've only shot paper with it at near max with 3031, it is accurate and cuts nice clean holes. I also like the LEE 340 FP. Again out of my gun accurate on paper.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    The only cast boolit my best friend's son will shoot is my Gould 457122 out of his Marlin. His dad proved its effectiveness when he was overseas, and he was convinced.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  15. #15
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    I have 7 rifles in that caliber, and all the RCBS mold offerings, and all the Lee offerings, and a couple of the Lymans. The everyday bullet that kills everything we have to hunt here in Texas is the 300 grain RCBS. And the 350 grain Ranchdog. I've also paper patched the 340 Lee out of soft alloy and run it about 1900fps. It kills stuff. A bit further up the ladder are the 425 Ranchdog, and the 405 RCBS. These two cast virtually the same weight out of my alloy mix, and are both very accurate, and deadly. If you choose a plainbase, the Lyman "Gould" hollowpoint, (I believe it is 457122?) is good, and I powder coat those, and run them about 1700fps. At that same level, is the 325 RCBS plain base it's equally as good, and is a 2 cavity mold. I have the 405 Lee Hollowbase, and for a light load, it does well, although it uses up more of increasingly hard to get alloy than the lighter designs. I have several 500 grain molds, the one that sees limited use in my lever guns is the 500 grain RCBS. It weighs about 514 grains out my alloy, and will empty a lead pot in short order. It also has to be run right at 1500 fps. to stabilize in my Marlins, which makes it a bit much for a plinking load, along with it's appetite for lead. I could shoot everything I need to shoot with the 300 RCBS, for a gas check, and the 325 RCBS for a plainbase...
    Cast Boolits, Where lead balloons go over....

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  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    i use the lee 340gn mold for my SBL . 24gn 2400 with quarter sheet of toilet paper to keep powder on primer .easy load on the shoulder and accurate if i do my bit .

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks for all the suggestions. I started with a 405 and that was not fun in the Marlin with any load. The 86 wasn't too bad. I will order a 300 and a 350 to tame the Marlin. The 86 will probably be the one I shoot the most. It shot some nice groups also.

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Ass Wallace View Post
    I have a range of boolits for my Pedersoli 1886 ranging from a 260gn 'squib' to 500gn. Recoil is mild with typical trapdoor loads.



    Those Pedersoli 1886s look really nice. I might NEED one.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    The main points between the two rifles you have is the Marlin is limited to an OAL of 2.55-2.57” and will likely have a groove diameter of around 0.458/0.459”. With Browning you can load to a longer OAL, around 2.80-2.85” and it will likely have a groove diameter of 0.457”. My Marlin has a microgroove barrel with shallow rifling and the Browning has deeper rifling. Both rifles have short throats and to take advantage of the longer OAL in the Browning, you need to use bore riding bullet designs. A Lee FCD is handy in case you need to crimp into the side of the bullet to clear the throat.

    Try to find a mould that casts a bullet that has a diameter of 0.460” to cover both rifles. I have a couple of the RCBS moulds and while they drop pills that are 0.459”, they work fine in my Marlin - it slugs 0.4585”. Despite being marginally over the groove diameter it is very accurate. If you’re powder coating your bullets that won’t be an issue as the coating will build up the diameter.

    400gr is the classic 45/70 bullet weight but there are plenty of lighter and heavier designs that work well. If you’re hunting the Lyman 457122 is a worthy addition or even better is Mihec’s enhanced version - it has a larger diameter and was available as a PB or GC version. You might need to wait for a Group Buy rerun for that one though.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check