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Thread: 45-70 suggestions

  1. #61
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walstr View Post
    Ditto on using 34.5gr of IMR4198 w/405gr hardcast, water quenched. My best was a 3/8", 100yd group! ...smiled all the way back to reload a batch & quit messin' 'round. Wally
    The math has me intrigued here -- a group smaller than a single bullet hole ? needs a special kind of tape measure for that !

  2. #62
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    Eddie Southgate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    The math has me intrigued here -- a group smaller than a single bullet hole ? needs a special kind of tape measure for that !
    Easy enough. Shoot five bullets, find dead center of the group, measure to dead center of the bullet farthest from the center of the group. I use a caliper, if you measure your groups with a tape measure ..... you might as well quit shooting.
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    The math has me intrigued here -- a group smaller than a single bullet hole ? needs a special kind of tape measure for that !
    I expect that group was measured center-to-center, not outside spread. The center-to-center method works better when comparing groups from two different caliber rifles, say .223 versus one of the .50 caliber Sharps cartridges. A 1" group measured to the furthest outside hole edges would mean two very different sized groups for these two bullets.
    Running the ridges and riding the rivers of the Southwest Virginia Appalachians

  4. #64
    Boolit Buddy Walstr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    The math has me intrigued here -- a group smaller than a single bullet hole ? needs a special kind of tape measure for that !
    Howdy Indian Joe: Yea, that sounds kinda wanky, eh. I learned to measure from the outside edges which are usually well defined:
    1-measure outside edges of furthest holes
    2-subtract actual bullet diameter
    3-record the group ctr-ctr diameter

    My 45-70-405 dia is .461". My Marlin 1895GS was supported at the forearm & my shoulder at a shooting bench, nice day in July of '21. I was eval'g 3031 & 4198 powder loads with my hardcast, bore riding nose, Alox lubed boolits. That's where 34.5gr of IMR4198 showed its worth.

    Actually this day was a do-over from previous week, because I was having too much fun before & forgot to let my barrel cool a bit between shots. This time I shot with cooling in mind via slow firing about 1 rnd/minute.

    I'll attach a few pics of cartridge/boolit.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	After RCBS Cowboy Crimp.jpg 
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Name:	My MM w Xlox DSC00963.jpg 
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Name:	My 45-70-405 Kissing the Bore 1483490959511.jpg 
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    P.S. I sensed you were tempted to word your question differently, like "Are you nukin futz?", but civility reigned. LOL
    Wally
    Last edited by Walstr; 11-13-2022 at 04:12 PM. Reason: 3 rd pic
    Been loading 6.5 CM for ELD, learning to load Mosin Nagant & .308/7.62x51
    Caster & CWW / Lead miner.
    Mountain Mold 45-70-405, 80% Meplat, sized .461" dia. for Marlin 1895GS
    Lyman mold #429421 "Elmer Keith" style 255gr, Dbl Cavity; [for .44 Mag, S&W 629, Alox lubed]
    Lyman #356402, 9mm, Sngl Cavity [for a friend]
    LEE #90282, 12ga Drive Key, 7/8oz Slug [for: Son's 3-Gun]
    LEE #90349, 452-255RF, 6 Cavity [for 45 Colt & 45 ACP; Alox lubed]
    LEE #90697, 453-200RF, ditto

  5. #65
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Southgate View Post
    Easy enough. Shoot five bullets, find dead center of the group, measure to dead center of the bullet farthest from the center of the group. I use a caliper, if you measure your groups with a tape measure ..... you might as well quit shooting.
    I think I missed something here? so your one inch group is from the centre to the edge? so its actually two inches across ?

    might as well quit shooting ? is kind of insulting. I am doin this with blackpowder and no magnifying glass on top of my gun. anytime I get inside two inches diameter group is not so shabby I think.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walstr View Post
    Howdy Indian Joe: Yea, that sounds kinda wanky, eh. I learned to measure from the outside edges which are usually well defined:
    1-measure outside edges of furthest holes
    2-subtract actual bullet diameter
    3-record the group ctr-ctr diameter

    My 45-70-405 dia is .461". My Marlin 1895GS was supported at the forearm & my shoulder at a shooting bench, nice day in July of '21. I was eval'g 3031 & 4198 powder loads with my hardcast, bore riding nose, Alox lubed boolits. That's where 34.5gr of IMR4198 showed its worth.

    Actually this day was a do-over from previous week, because I was having too much fun before & forgot to let my barrel cool a bit between shots. This time I shot with cooling in mind via slow firing about 1 rnd/minute.

    I'll attach a few pics of cartridge/boolit.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	After RCBS Cowboy Crimp.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	29.9 KB 
ID:	306830
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	My MM w Xlox DSC00963.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	65.7 KB 
ID:	306831
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	My 45-70-405 Kissing the Bore 1483490959511.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	18.0 KB 
ID:	306832

    P.S. I sensed you were tempted to word your question differently, like "Are you nukin futz?", but civility reigned. LOL
    Wally
    I tried really really hard too

  7. #67
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    Hey Wally have you had to work on the front end of that Marlin to stop it walking shots when it gets hot? If yes what needed done ? A problem I am having with a Blackpowder rifle / magazine tie up / forend pressure or something. Some do it others not so. just wondering ?
    Joe

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Hey Wally have you had to work on the front end of that Marlin to stop it walking shots when it gets hot? If yes what needed done ? A problem I am having with a Blackpowder rifle / magazine tie up / forend pressure or something. Some do it others not so. just wondering ?
    Joe
    I know you aren’t asking me but can tell you I have had great success with bedding the forearms on single shots and lever guns. Both were walking shots when heated up. The bedding makes them more consistent cold-hot barrel

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjet-SS View Post
    I know you aren’t asking me but can tell you I have had great success with bedding the forearms on single shots and lever guns. Both were walking shots when heated up. The bedding makes them more consistent cold-hot barrel
    thanks - any help always appreciated.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    thanks - any help always appreciated.
    The mag tube on lever guns can also cause this I check my tightness on the screws frequently. If I have one that keeps loosening I put a dab of blue lock title in it.

  11. #71
    Boolit Buddy Walstr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    thanks - any help always appreciated.
    HI; My first comment re: NOT letting my bbl cool was for real. Reviewing my targets, I can clearly see the impact groups "sink & go left" by several inches! RE: Ramjet-SS comments; I didn't try bedding, but alternatively did a fair amount of sanding the inside of the forearm to eliminate any 'touching'. Ya know, why wouldn't a shooter engage in slow fire anyway? I know, Zombie attacks are a survival situation.
    P.S. My lower pic shows the "bore riding" section of my custom boolit actually touching but not scraping. When I play in Winter weather, I use Magnum Lrg Rifle Primers for grins; no measurable difference from my uses. Good luck, have fun and bring your 'enLightenment' into those dark rabbit hole of curiosity.
    Wally
    Been loading 6.5 CM for ELD, learning to load Mosin Nagant & .308/7.62x51
    Caster & CWW / Lead miner.
    Mountain Mold 45-70-405, 80% Meplat, sized .461" dia. for Marlin 1895GS
    Lyman mold #429421 "Elmer Keith" style 255gr, Dbl Cavity; [for .44 Mag, S&W 629, Alox lubed]
    Lyman #356402, 9mm, Sngl Cavity [for a friend]
    LEE #90282, 12ga Drive Key, 7/8oz Slug [for: Son's 3-Gun]
    LEE #90349, 452-255RF, 6 Cavity [for 45 Colt & 45 ACP; Alox lubed]
    LEE #90697, 453-200RF, ditto

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by stubshaft View Post
    Once I started shooting the RCBS 405, I sold off the rest of my molds. It is exceptionally accurate in my 1895's and drops animals in their tracks.
    I do shoot lighter and heavier bullets in my 45-70’s and 45-90’s but you CANNOT go wrong with this bullet and a 30-1 mix. Extremely accurate and hits like a freight train.

    Art
    ”Only accurate rifles are interesting”
    ——Townsend Whelen


    In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act
    —- George Orwell

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walstr View Post
    HI; My first comment re: NOT letting my bbl cool was for real. Reviewing my targets, I can clearly see the impact groups "sink & go left" by several inches! RE: Ramjet-SS comments; I didn't try bedding, but alternatively did a fair amount of sanding the inside of the forearm to eliminate any 'touching'. Ya know, why wouldn't a shooter engage in slow fire anyway? I know, Zombie attacks are a survival situation.
    P.S. My lower pic shows the "bore riding" section of my custom boolit actually touching but not scraping. When I play in Winter weather, I use Magnum Lrg Rifle Primers for grins; no measurable difference from my uses. Good luck, have fun and bring your 'enLightenment' into those dark rabbit hole of curiosity.
    Wally
    yeah mine is same go slow and its good (blackpowder exacerbates the problem I dont shoot smokeless) OR I can lay a nice three shotter down if I just crank it. Mine walks vertical pretty much.

  14. #74
    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
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    I love Lyman’s 350 gr. FP bullet intended for the 45-75 with about 14.5 unique for my 1895 sporter ( pistol grip, 1/2 tube and 22” barre) along with my H&R repro officers model trapdoor. About 1300 fps and it rings steel at 200 easily. Not bad on shoulder. I have 457191 mold but have yet to develop a load as the above shoots so well.

  15. #75
    Boolit Buddy
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    That 350 gr. Lyman was the 457192 and was discontinued back in the 1970's. It is pretty much a 457122 without the HP. I have had pretty good luck with the 457191 over 12 gr. of Unique, about 1150 fps. Recoil is next to nothing as is muzzle blast.

  16. #76
    Boolit Man
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    I have enjoyed reading all of this from what appears to be a very knowledgeable 45-70 crowd with a lot of good to excellent suggestions already.
    Currently the only rifle I have that is chambered in 45-70 is an 1895 marlin cowboy, I have 2 molds an rcbs 45-405 and an NOE 460-425 both shoot really well with 23-26 grs. of 5744, have used unique also, and 3031 for top end stuff.
    The load I have been using lately is from Ken Waters old “pet loads” articles it is surprisingly accurate, with mild recoil, and low extreme spreads averaging 1325 fps, it is 53 grs 4831 with either of the above mentioned boolits, set off by a federal 215 magnum primer. I was re-reading that particular article one day saw this load and having a good supply of both 4831 and 215’s with no other real good use for either I tried it. I will say this though velocity was very erratic until I reached that 53 gr mark, My notes say I started at 50 and went up 1/2 gr at a time.

  17. #77
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    If you get one of the 330 gr molds try 40.0 to 43.0 grs of 3031 with a standard primer recoil is not bad and it's an accurate load even at long range with an average of 1335-1340 fps.

  18. #78
    Boolit Buddy Mint's Avatar
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  19. #79
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    I'm not seeing any ability to buy - just says backordered and I can't add to the cart. Did it sell out immediately?

    I've only cases fired 3 or 4 times with 425 g WFNGC and 39.7 g IMR4198, so pretty stiff. I'm going to move down to 405 and easier loads, but still knew my time with these cases is limited. I imagine the world lit up when this opened! Thanks for the info.
    -Paul

  20. #80
    Boolit Buddy Mint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    I'm not seeing any ability to buy - just says backordered and I can't add to the cart. Did it sell out immediately?

    I've only cases fired 3 or 4 times with 425 g WFNGC and 39.7 g IMR4198, so pretty stiff. I'm going to move down to 405 and easier loads, but still knew my time with these cases is limited. I imagine the world lit up when this opened! Thanks for the info.
    Apparently when you buy with backorder they usually still ship out in 1-2 days. I noticed they set it from 'out of stock' to backorder about 24 hours ago, and then they added the notice about 1 hour ago "limited quantity available" so im assuming they would ship it pretty soon, but caveat emptor

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check