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Thread: 45-70 suggestions

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mint View Post
    Oh wow... I didn't even know they made a deluxe model. Crap. Can I see a photo of yours so I can see what's different other than the checkering? If I missed out on a really nice looking wood figure i would be sad
    mine is only the standard version. got it mid 2019 (second hand - had fired 6 shots and been returned) first sold proly a year earlier and would take most of a year to get here from Italy so maybe shipped late 2016 or sometime 2017. Wood is decent without being fancy but when I had the stock off it - heavy!
    Checked my scale (its good) and re weighed it just now - still getting that 9.83 pound. Maybe they slimmed the barrel a bit on later builds?

    This gun had serious issue, wouldnt feed, was gonna take it back and argue. I loaded up 7 blackpowder / duplex loads - shot it - changed my mind pronto!
    The stray on the left is first shot fouler - then a three shot group beside it - walked up for a looksee - lets see if we can do that again - nope not quite but not so bad - I have difficulty with vertical alignment with open sights just cant see em well enough, so I've dropped that second string a couple inches down - think I had a marbles tang on for this but still the stock front sight.

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    Last edited by indian joe; 10-26-2022 at 10:49 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjet-SS View Post
    My Henry shoots everything very accurately but really likes a lighter loaded 460 grain WFN over Unique 1200 FPS. Love that’s rifle it’s really awesome wood and easy to carry and accurate to boot.
    500 gr, .459 LEE 3R, pure lead, with 42 grs of blackhorn209, 1200 fps. In my roller, 45/70, Very accurate out to 1000yds and beyond.
    For bears, Guide gun, 45/70, Lee 515gr, FN, pure lead, 27grs 5744. Very accurate, kicks hard on both ends.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by John in WYO View Post
    https://shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

    This link helps in load development and explains what is happening when your 7.5 pound Ruger #1 in .45-70 Gov’t kicks the **** out you on the bench.

    Recoil velocity as well as Foot-pounds of energy.

    “Wow!. THAT load hit me HARD and FAST!”
    how accurate are these calculators?
    Playing just now I put in a 12 gauge load 11/4 oz x 1200fps got recoil energy at 25 - change the powder from 25 grains (smokeless load) to 70 grains (Black) it goes up to 40 ???? that seems too much difference ????

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy Mint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    how accurate are these calculators?
    Playing just now I put in a 12 gauge load 11/4 oz x 1200fps got recoil energy at 25 - change the powder from 25 grains (smokeless load) to 70 grains (Black) it goes up to 40 ???? that seems too much difference ????
    I prefer this calculator: https://bisonballistics.com/calculators/recoil

    That uses the same formula that I put into my own spreadsheet and it seems fairly accurate (relatively speaking).

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hc18flyer View Post
    Would anyone be willing to share a copy of the Pearce article on the .45-70? My subscription started after that. Thanks, hc18flyer
    Call Wolfe Publishing and see if they have any back issues available and if not, they have "Digital Copies" available that you can down load and print out.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  6. #46
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ID:	306342 Just went to the range the other day and shot some ACME 405 Hi-Tech bullets. I am not ready to cast yet, not geared up for it. Did many years ago but for now I'm shooting coated bullets. This load (H4198 30 grains) is soft to shoot and still drop most things at 1500 fps. My other load is 2015BR at 44.3 grains and 1666 fps. That load actually is punishing for me. Both are accurate from my 26 inch take down. As soon as I can get my hands on 4 pounds of Unique, I'll shoot that in most of my plinkers. Gordons is providing the interior ballistic data but a chronograph is on the way. I have to see what everything is moving at speed wise.
    Last edited by BRatigan; 11-01-2022 at 09:04 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post

    Just for info The Aug 2007 Handloader Magazine #248 has the definitive article by Brian Pearce on loading the .45-70 for modern guns from Mild to Wild, and is a must have reference for loading this cartridge. Don't be afraid to keep the Magazine in the bathroom for reading there. I have read that article at least 50 times and learn something new every time.
    Another great Handloader on 45-70 loads is in the June 1988, #133. This one has instructions on duplicating "classic" loads with a variety of powders. It tells how to achieve 19th-century ballistics a number of ways, including using only smokeless, only black, and duplex loads. Since these are classic loads they should be of interest to anyone who wants to tame the recoil. I ordered it for a small price from Wolfe.

    I hadn't heard of the #248 article and will have to get a copy of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Your 1886 with the Curved Steel Butt Plate will lower your ability to shoot heavier loads significantly, and anything above Trapdoor level loads will be instantly noticeable.
    I will confess to a fascination with the curved steel butt plate. When I first started shooting with one, I couldn't accept what some people said, that it was designed to "look nice" and had no practical purpose. After doing a lot of web searches (I think it was those searches that first led me to this site several years back), I learned that the curved butt plate was designed for quick, repeatable mounting while using the rifles on foot or on horseback (and is meant to be mounted toward the outside of the shoulder, where it cups the joint). Same with the buckhorn iron sights, leaving an open field of view to allow rapid target acquisition. Neat how these "deficiencies" from a modern bench-rest or stationary-shooting perspective were actually highly optimized design features. I can say that my 1886 is shockingly steady in off-hand shooting.

    A Browning/Miroku 26" 1886 is listed at 9 lbs 5 oz. By the time you add eight or nine rounds, you're looking at a ten-pound rifle.

    I'd be really interested in techniques anyone has developed for shooting these from the bench and/or prone. Besides just eating it—which is what I tend to do.


    This thread by Larry Gibson is one of the best sources I've found for 45-70 loads:
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ighlight=loads
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    Last edited by openbook; 11-01-2022 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Edited to add Larry Gibson thread.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by openbook View Post
    Another great Handloader on 45-70 loads is in the June 1988, #133. This one has instructions on duplicating "classic" loads with a variety of powders. It tells how to achieve 19th-century ballistics a number of ways, including using only smokeless, only black, and duplex loads. Since these are classic loads they should be of interest to anyone who wants to tame the recoil. I ordered it for a small price from Wolfe.

    I hadn't heard of the #248 article and will have to get a copy of that.

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    I will confess to a fascination with the curved steel butt plate. When I first started shooting with one, I couldn't accept what some people said, that it was designed to "look nice" and had no practical purpose. After doing a lot of web searches (I think it was those searches that first led me to this site several years back), I learned that the curved butt plate was designed for quick, repeatable mounting while using the rifles on foot or on horseback (and is meant to be mounted toward the outside of the shoulder, where it cups the joint). Same with the buckhorn iron sights, leaving an open field of view to allow rapid target acquisition. Neat how these "deficiencies" from a modern bench-rest or stationary-shooting perspective were actually highly optimized design features. I can say that my 1886 is shockingly steady in off-hand shooting.

    A Browning/Miroku 26" 1886 is listed at 9 lbs 5 oz. By the time you add eight or nine rounds, you're looking at a ten-pound rifle.

    I'd be really interested in techniques anyone has developed for shooting these from the bench and/or prone. Besides just eating it—which is what I tend to do.


    This thread by Larry Gibson is one of the best sources I've found for 45-70 loads:
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ighlight=loads
    I made a standing bench setup for testing - so its a couple inches below nipple height. Jig around with the design until you are comfortable in the position.
    Dont shoot prone If I am getting down that low I shoot sitting, curled up around the rifle, crossed legs (below the knees!) I am built chunky and always did well in that position

  9. #49
    Boolit Buddy
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    I also have a Browning 1886 rifle with the crescent butt. I made a leather lace on butt pad that helps a lot. I also made a set of adjustable bench top shooting sticks that I set much higher than traditional sandbags. This allows an upright position rather than leaning down into the rifle. I like the shooting sticks so much I rarely use the sandbags anymore, even with more modern rifles. I mainly shoot trapdoor level or lighter loads in the 1886. The 500 grain loads still get your attention though.

  10. #50
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    i shoot trapdoor level loads in my SBL 340gn lee boolit<350gn> with my lead ,24gn 2400 with a quarter sheet of toilet paper to hold it against the primer .shot a 5 shot group into 1.3 inches ,if i had not got over excited the first 4 went into .8 of an inch at 50 meters , one big ragged hole ,well it pleased me.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    I shoot up to 500grain boolits in my 1895. Staying in the 45/70 loads, the recoil is reasonable.
    What Greg says all day long. Personally my favorite is the RCBS 405 grain cast but I’ve shot everything from 300 grain to 535 grains. The trick is this, I’m not a speed demon. If 500 grain bullets going roughly 1100-1400 FPS just about extincted the buffalo herd (that was in the millions at one time…) then that should work on any game in the United States.

    That 405 grain bullet is very accurate in all my 45-70s as well as 45-90’s

    Art
    ”Only accurate rifles are interesting”
    ——Townsend Whelen


    In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act
    —- George Orwell

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Is yours a lever action or single shot? My single shot really likes the Lyman 457191 as cast and dipped in LLA over 12.8 grains Unique and an LP primer. Of course, Unique is now on the endangered species list around here so I am thinking about what other powders may work. The GMDR site shows data for Titegroup which looks promising and is easy to find here.
    Single Shot and Universal is a great substitute for Unique very close. Not as rare as SR4759 so disappointed they stopped making that it was such a great reduced load powder…..

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy Mint's Avatar
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    Can someone explain what is so special about Unique? I see it mentioned SO much. What properties about it make it so awesome that other powders don't have?

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=Mint;5485398]Can someone explain what is so special about Unique? I see it mentioned SO much. What properties about it make it so awesome that other powders don't have?[


    Unique is the oldest smokless powder on the market(1899) its still in production because of its versatility you can load anything from a .22wcf to 12 gauge with it. Its been around a lot longer than the late and missed sr4759 or the newer and pricey 5744. Most of the loads Iv'e chronographed with it have given a standard deviation thats close to black powder which a lot of smokless powders won't do or even get close to. A good example is that 12.5 grs of unique with a 500 gr bullet in my .45-70 trapdoor has the same velocity 1180 fps as the original 70 gr black powder goverment service load.
    Last edited by 1Hawkeye; 11-11-2022 at 02:24 PM. Reason: more info

  15. #55
    Boolit Buddy
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    Unique has been around for over 100 years. It's burn rate makes it ideal for mid range handgun rounds in wide variety of calibers. I reckon there is not a standard handgun caliber that you can not load very useful ammo for with Unique. It also works well in calibers like 45-70 and lots of others for light plinking loads wit cast boolits where it yields about 500 rounds per pound, so economical. I load 12 grains under a 300 grain Lyman 457191. Recoil with this load is next to nothing, less than 1/3 of the standard 45-70-405 service load. Does not seem to be position sensitive in my experience. I suspect many on this forum (self included) who have been reloading for 50 years or more have never been without Unique in their stock of powder. There are a number of more modern powders in the same burn rate as Unique, it is just the old standby, tried and true.

  16. #56
    Boolit Buddy Mint's Avatar
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    Interesting, great info.

    Why did they discontinue SR4759? After googling it had large following.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mint View Post
    Interesting, great info.

    Why did they discontinue SR4759? After googling it had large following.
    Business decision it’s a tough powder to MFG and did not have high quantity commercial applications. It’s a great powder for midrange and lower velocity loads.

    Demand it had dedicated following but not as large as one would think.

  18. #58
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mint View Post
    Why did they discontinue SR4759? After googling it had large following.
    It was also considered to be the prime standard for duplex loads. IMR-4227 and 2400 are also said to be good, but distant seconds to SR-4759.

  19. #59
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    I hate to say it but I think the true reason 4759 went away is because hodgdons bought out accurate and figured 5744 was a better seller than 4759.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird View Post
    I cast just 2 types of bullets that does everything I need. RCBS 300g gas checked and RCBS 405 gas checked. The 300g's, actually 325g, are used at near max velocities with aa2200 data powder and the 405's with 34g of IMR 4198. Accuracy is really good.
    These loads are no longer fun to shoot for me, and I will be sorting out some trapdoor loads using Unique powder, so I don't really need gas checks anymore. One less step to deal with.
    I will be looking for a RCBS 325 plain base bullet mold, and I think that will fit all of my needs.
    Ditto on using 34.5gr of IMR4198 w/405gr hardcast, water quenched. My best was a 3/8", 100yd group! ...smiled all the way back to reload a batch & quit messin' 'round. Wally
    Been loading 6.5 CM for ELD, learning to load Mosin Nagant & .308/7.62x51
    Caster & CWW / Lead miner.
    Mountain Mold 45-70-405, 80% Meplat, sized .461" dia. for Marlin 1895GS
    Lyman mold #429421 "Elmer Keith" style 255gr, Dbl Cavity; [for .44 Mag, S&W 629, Alox lubed]
    Lyman #356402, 9mm, Sngl Cavity [for a friend]
    LEE #90282, 12ga Drive Key, 7/8oz Slug [for: Son's 3-Gun]
    LEE #90349, 452-255RF, 6 Cavity [for 45 Colt & 45 ACP; Alox lubed]
    LEE #90697, 453-200RF, ditto

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check