A question on Lyman 310 boolit sizing dies - specifically 6.5 X 50 Japanese

[bedbugbilly]

I’m looking for some information in regards to the Lyman 310 “bullet sizing dies”. I have done a number of searches to try and find a reference chart for them as far as the sizes they produced with no luck. Does such a chart exist? My question applies specifically for the bullet sizing die or dies that they made for the 6.5 X 50 Japanese cartridge.

I have two very early, 1st year production (1905) Japanese Type 38 Arisaka rifles that I “inherited” – one with a 2 digit and one with a 3 digit serial number – very good condition and both with pristine bores. I’m in the process of getting ready to load 6.5 X 50 cartridges to use in them. I have three molds I’m going to be using to try out in them (Lyman/Ideal) – a 266-324 which is a 119 gr. plain base, a 266-455 which is a 127 gr. gas check and the 266-469 which is a 140 gr. gas check. I can get 6.5 gas checks from Sage and I want to gas check the 127 gr. and 140 gr. even though I’m not planning on pushing them hard or to the limit. Looking at Lee push through sizing dies in order to crimp the gas check on, it appears that the 6.5 is a “red headed step-child” as they don’t make them. I don’t have a lubersizer – don’t have the room and can’t justify the cash layout for one for just setting gas checks on this particular boolit.

A good member here helped me out with 6.5 X 50 Lyman 310 dies and steel tong so I have everything I need to load the cartridge, but I am either going to have to have a .266 push thru die made to use on my singles stage press, or find a 310 push through die for the 6.5. I am assuming that the 310 push through boolit sizing dies would work just fine and the same way that a Lee push through die works, for crimping/setting a gas check.

Not being able to find a reference chart on the 310 pullet sizing dies, I’m hoping that someone can advise me as to what size or sizes they made for the 6.5 X 50 Japanese cartridge or other 6.5 cartridges. Did they make just one size – which I would think would be a .266, or did they make other sizes for the 6.5 such as .267 and/or .268? Before I post a WTB posting to see if I can scare one up, I need to know just what size or sizes they made for the 6.5.

If anyone knows, or anyone has one with their dies, could you check the size and let me know?

If I’m not able to locate one, I’ll have to go the other route and have one custom made. What I kind of find odd, and/or interesting, is that with all of the Type 38 Arisaka rifles that got carted back home by GIs, and with the other 6.5 cartridges out there, Lee doesn’t make a .266 or .288 push through sizer, nor do they seem to make molds for them. I realize that many rifles got converted, but there are still a lot of there that shoot them – unless they just prefer to use jacketed and not cast? I’m not aware if Lee made a bullet sizing die in .266, .267 or .268 in their old style “whack a bullet sizer” – I’m guessing one of those would work for setting gas checks but I’ve never run across one in the size I need.

Many thanks!

Jim

[uscra112]

FWIW you can buy a .266 drill bushing from McMaster-Carr for about eight bucks, (the shipping will be twice that however). Chuck in a lathe and use a fine stone on your Dremel to grind a nice gentle taper entry, and figure a way to mount it in a modified 310 die body.

Looking at the metric bushings available, there are 6.8 mm sizes.

Both will be a skosh bigger, since they are specified by drill diameter, and there has to be a bit of clearance.

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you - I will certainly keep that in mind. My problem is that I no longer have access to a lathe or a mill - if I did, I could easily make a sizing die. If I had access to a lathe, with the small .266 hole needed, it would be a snap to take a standard size die body that is already threaded 7/8-14 and that had a large enough ID - that had a large enough "through hole at the top - to just turn a bushing to pressure fit in and make a couple push stems - one with a flat end for flat nose and one with a cup end for round nose boolits. The access I used to have for machine tools is now gone do to the owner's death and we have no small machine shops around that I could get the work done at. Thank you though for the information as that would certainly work.

IIRC, a size H drill is .266. Just thinking out loud. I know that .266 reamers are available as well. If a person had a small lathe - a drill a tad smaller than .266 and a .266 reamer - it wouldn't take much to come up with a push through sizing die that would go in to a standard press like Lee makes - I have to believe that they would sell - not large quantities but I have to believe that I'm not the only one who needs one that casts for the 6.5. i'm lucky though as my two rifles need a .226 to .228 cast bullet - a lot of the Type 38s evidently have bores all over the place.

Jim

[uscra112]

I think you meant .266 and .268, yes?

The I.D. of a 310 universal decapper is a bit over .500", which is the O.D. of those bushings. A fact I have taken advantage of already in making up 310 tools for the .25 Stevens and the .32 Long Colt. Spacers would still have to be made, but they aren't very precise. That leaves the grinding of a lead-in taper in the drill bushing.....Keep thinking.....

I've recently read that it takes strong hands to size bullets with a tong tool. Which may be a discouragement.

Maybe it's time to think about investing in a micro lathe such as the Sherline? I lucked into an Emco Unimat Mk3 a few months ago, and have found it very useful. I can plop in on my desk and work seated, which has been a blessing since my low back pain has prohibited me from standing in front of my regular machines. It weighs just 25 lbs, so when not in use it gets put aside.

[bedbugbilly]

y=Tes you are correct on your opening question . . . . . . . too many numbers running around in my mind!

You've given me some good food for thought and I appreciate that.

I need to pull out my box of 310 spare parts and take a good look to see what I have and what I could put together to possibly solve my needs. lAs far as using the 310 bullet sizer in tongs . . . I have played with that a little bit with 38s and 45s and it IS work. If I could find a .266 310 sizing die, my intent would be to use a ring thread adapter bushing and use it in my single stage press.

I have a PDF copy of the old Ideal Handbook 35, and they show the same molds that I am using. Their comment is that .266 to .258 will work fine in the 6.5 X 50. I plan to cast some up in the molds I have in the next few days so I can see what they actually drop at. Even if a sizing die was at .258, I have to believe that iw would sufficiently crimp on a gas check. I have slugged both bores and they seem be identical and my readings are right at .266 with my old 1" micrometer. Even if + or - .0005, a .266 to a .268 boolit should work fine. I know that the bores of the Arisakas can be all over the place, but my thinking is that since these two rifles were within he first 210 Type 38s made, that their tooling was in good shape and their tolerances tighter than in later year productions when the demand was high and tooling had wear. I am interesting in examining some fo the brass after firing to see if the chambers are truly concentric or if they are oval/egg shaped like some of the rifle chambers are.

Ar=t my age and with my health issues, I'm down sizing as I worry about if something happens to me, th work my wife will have in getting rid of "my stuff". If I was twenty years younger, I'd love to have a small lath and vertical mill as I can think of a lot of things that could be made on them. I'll have to keep on the look out for one fo the small laths like the Unimat though as it would sure be handy. You never know what will come up, especially where we wintering AZ as fellows pass away and their tools/toys get sold off.

Thanks again for your thoughts and suggestions - they are greatly appreciated!

Jim

[Mk42gunner]

If I could find a .266 310 sizing die, my intent would be to use a ring thread adapter bushing and use it in my single stage press.

I was glad to read that. I have done a few .30 caliber boolits in a .311 die with the 310. It might be okay if you were still hand milking a few cows, but otherwise any press mounted setup is better.

One thing that I found curious was the fact that Ideal/Lyman wanted you to size the bullets base first, the push rod had a top punch built in. I would have thought a flat faced rod utilized in a nose first fashion would make more sense, but what do I know?

Robert

[rockrat]

Could you contact Lee and see if they make a .266" sizer or what it would cost for them to make one for you?

[The Dar]

Lee will make a custom sizer, $50 and 8 weeks. I just received one. I placed the order and got a confirmation email that the sizer would be sent by Priority Mail at a cost of $21.50. If I had to do it over again I'd go with the NOE sizer. $46 for the body and $11 for the sizer. AND much more reasonable shipping.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks - I knew that Lee would do custom sizer but most time I've heard of the expense and the long lead time to get it done.

I took a look at the NOE the other night - figured you had to buy the die body and then the sizing bushings separately - but I didn't see a clear explanation of then - and I may have missed it310
I have been in contact with a good member on here that has a 20 .264 push through bullet sizing die body that he is sending me. I think I can polish it out to .266 - mount it in my single stage with a thread usher and it should work. If I end up with an issue - I'm thinking of going with the NOE and maybe switching my push through bullet sizing dies to that system. Thanks for the info - greatly appreciated!

[uscra112]

NOE is making sizers now? A logical extension of what he's been doing, but good to know.

[Green Frog]

I talked to Tom Crone yesterday at Ft Shenandoah. He said he can make a .266 sizer, no problem. I’ll send you a PM with his phone number… be sure to specify threaded for 7/8X14. I don’t think you’ll find anyone who will make it for you better or more reasonably, based on the four I have!

Froggie

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you Froggie - appreciate it!

Jim

[trooperdan]

Heck, back in those days Lyman would make just about anything you asked for so I'm sure there are some .266 sizers around but probably not many! I even remember back in the '60's you could write Lyman asking for a few sample boolits from a mold you were considering, I know, I have done it! There might have been a charge, I don't recall one but if there was, it had to have been less than a dollar!

Heck, back then you could send the US Mint a dollar and get a dollars worth of silver! It came in a little manila envelope as granules about like #7 or 8 shot but irregular not perfectly round.