Massad Ayoob and Bill Wilson discuss hand loading ammunition for self-defense. Critic

[trapper9260]

I do not know if this belong here if not please move it to where it needs to be,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpHA...xJt3d&index=11

[pworley1]

Very interesting post.

[schutzen-jager]

anyone have any verified documentation of reloaded ammunition being a major issue in any self defense court case ?

[dverna]

Good post!

Thanks

[T-Bird]

Never considered that angle on the subject, it makes perfect sense tho.

[HWooldridge]

I have heard this argument before. The example I was given is: You load your 44 magnum down to 44 Special velocities, then you shoot an intruder with that load. The bullet subsequently goes through a wall and injures an innocent person. The lawyers will ask why you didn't just buy factory 44 Special rounds and there really isn't any good answer for the question.

And even if criminal charges are dismissed or never prosecuted, you are still wide open for a civil suit - where the burden of proof is much less and the possibilities of a large monetary settlement are much higher. Handloads make for another variable that can go against you.

[Handloader109]

BS arguments. There isn't a prosecution for this. All speculation on MAs part. And easy argument is that oh, I bought those at a gunshow. It is the same argument as those that don't like some logos and text on the guns. Gives you the appearance that you were just looking to shoot someone. If it is a good self defense shooting, it is a good self defense shooting.
I buy SD ammo for my 9mm carry and have factory ammo in my long guns that I might use to defend myself, but I have my reloads in other guns. And if I grab one of those to use, so be it... reloads will be the least of your worries if you have to use your gun.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[MaryB]

This is a myth that refuses to die. Getting shot with a factory hollow point is no different than getting shot with a hand loaded one. And I use a pretty hot Buffalo Bore hollow point round in my .380, I also have a mag loaded with hand loads and if I grabbed the hand load it wouldn't make a difference, performance is virtually identical between them. When I use up the Buffalo Bore I will only use my hand loads.

And how will they know it is not factory ammo? I use a factory case, probably the same or very similar powder, a jacketed hollow point bullet just like the factory load... The cops aren't going to take all your ammo for testing, at most they will take what is in the mag. So no box saying it is X brand of ammo... I have never heard of anyone being asked what brand of ammo it is...

[Bmi48219]

I’ve read about SD cases that went south because the ammo used was reloads. GSR was one issue. Worse was the idea promulgated by media that reloading in itself was an indication of aggressive behavior.
There is a large segment of society (ie: potential jurors) that believe firearms are evil. If firearms are evil how will they view reloaders? Many of them will be jurors. Look at the way the DA tried to portray KR during his trial.
Face with a charge of murder, the cost of a box of SD ammo is small potatoes.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'll venture a guess that they'll know you were using reloads by the remaining rounds in your pistol. I'd also guess that using reloads is one of the lesser concerns for a good defense attorney.


DG

[bbogue1]

Armed Attournies had a great short video on this topic. Watch it at https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l7r4eeNPIUg It is about 2 minutes long. The two attorneys recommend it is your choice, hand load or factory. The prosecutor will try to sway the jury no matter what the origination of it is. So, it does not matter. Use whatever you feel will be safest.

[gwpercle]

anyone have any verified documentation of reloaded ammunition being a major issue in any self defense court case ?

If anyone would know anything about that ... it would be Massad Ayoob ... he earns a good part of his income as an expert witness in firearms annunition and defensive shootings , testifying in court cases all over the country . I read his articles in gun magazines every month ( The Ayoob Files especially deals with actual court cases) and he has never mentioned reloaded ammo in any court case or in any charges filed .
But that's a good question to ask him ... being an expert witness he's been invlved in a lot of cases .
You know ... I would tend to take the advice that Massad gives on this topic ... he might not be a lawyer ... but that might be a good thing .
Gary

[schutzen-jager]

If anyone would know anything about that ... it would be Massad Ayoob ... he earns a good part of his income as an expert witness in firearms annunition and defensive shootings , testifying in court cases all over the country . I read his articles in gun magazines every month ( The Ayoob Files especially deals with actual court cases) and he has never mentioned reloaded ammo in any court case or in any charges filed .
But that's a good question to ask him ... being an expert witness he's been invlved in a lot of cases .
You know ... I would tend to take the advice that Massad gives on this topic ... he might not be a lawyer ... but that might be a good thing .
Gary

he has stated that it has been brought up at trials , but to the best of my knowledge + opinions of numerous attorneys + law enforcement it has never been a deciding factor in any legal decision - total myth that can be overridden by any prosecuter or defense with simple application of documented facts + common sense -

[Bmi48219]

Wonder if anyone has compiled data on the percentage of SD shootings that were accomplished using reloaded ammo?

[KCSO]

This was brought up in a shooting we had and it ended up a non issue, A good shooting is going to be good regardless of the ammo.

[Big Tom]

For the last 20 years, nobody that I know of was ever able to provide information about a single court case where this was even a topic. Does anybody here have actual information regarding this?

[MT Gianni]

Ayoob is the only one that has ever brought this up. He harps on it though it has never been brought up in court.

[HWooldridge]

My CCW instructor brought it up in class many years ago; he was the one with the 44 mag/44 special analogy - but you never know, he might have gotten it from Ayoob.

[Omega]

Over and over I hear this, but have never bought into it. If you use factory hollow points, then they will ask why not FMJ and vise versa. Prosecutors will try to use anything they can to get a conviction, so it matters not what you do. If I am ever asked why I used reloaded ammo, I'll respond with "that is what my weapon was loaded with when the perp decided to put me in fear for my or someone else's life, they should have waited until I had factory ammo in it".

[HWooldridge]

FWIW, I'm not sure I own much factory ammo other than 22 RF and 17 HMR...maybe some .223 FMJ and 12 gauge bird loads. Everything else is a handload.