Subsonic 350 Legend?

[brewer12345]

I have been fooling around with a modestly powered, plain base round for short range hunting. The latest iteration is something I am pretty happy with: a 207 grain MP version of the 35-200 bullet, plain based, powder coated, sized to .357 and seated to 2.10" OAL over 7.0 grains of Unique. At our 25 to 50 yard distance we are getting very small groups and the chrono today gave average velocity of 1150 FPS, ES of 24 and SD of 10. My buddy is thinking about a suppressor and maybe a subsonic load. My guess is that I need a heavier mold to get subsonic (ideally 1050 FPS or so), but I am leery of getting too heavy and not being able to stabilize the bullet with a typical 350 barrel twist. Our quarry is a swimming beaver, so this is trying to hit a moving dollar bill out to 50 yards in the dark. Small groups are really important. Anyone fooled with a subsonic load in this cartridge? Can you recommend a mold?

[Milky Duck]

PLEASE do not do it...the difference the extra couple of hundred fps make cannot be over emphasized....a near miss of vitals with subs SUCK.....seriously blows big chunks.....enough to put folks off hunting type sucks.... you are turning your gun int oa bow using target points.....suck suck suck....you HAVE to hit brain or spine for drop on spot,a good double lung hit...same as a bow n arrow..long dead run..... a low powered load like you already have will still be much more quiet through a suppressor and will kill much better...often times using a full noise load through a suppressor the animals will mill around or even run towards you as have great deal of difficulty picking which direction shot came from.

[Milky Duck]

also...seeing your quarry,go with most open hollow point you can get and keep speed up...big solid subsonics are wicked and bouncing off stuff,they dont break up on impact...a near miss with hohohollowpoint at speed will be huge whop into water and may stun animal enough for finishing shot.

[brewer12345]

All we see of a swimming beaver is its head, and animals with no brain generally expire rapidly.

[mehavey]

Is the OP running an AR, or a bolt action?
And have you considered PC-coated pure lead ?

[ChristopherO]

I used to shoot groundhogs with 22 HP Shorts on a small farm in urban sprawl. The Head & Neck shots were instant kills and not loud enough to spook the neighbors.
I've also shot groundhogs with cast 35 WFN at no more than 1,000 fps with body shots, and know exactly what Milky Duck is referring to. Understand, though, what you are trying to accomplish. I believe, based on my 35 caliber experience that a lighter boolit with a few grains of Bullseye could accomplish what you are wanting to achieve and still not push them too fast. There are some excellent molds that fit that bill. CW Longshot has cast many different 35 boolits under the 200 grain weight you mentioned. I've settled on the NOE 182U WFN (GC & PB), but here is a group from another cast 35 that hold incredible promise:

[brewer12345]

Is the OP running an AR, or a bolt action?
And have you considered PC-coated pure lead ?

Bolt action. I cast these out of range scrap with a bit of tin. Was thinking about accurate 36-250b, cast out of something like 40-1.

[mehavey]

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4967562
Either of these bullets will do what you want -- but the Saeco would be 1st choice if you can find a mold.

Otherwise he 36-250P looks to be close to the Saeco design

[brewer12345]

See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4967562
Either of these bullets will do what you want -- but the Saeco would be 1st choice if you can find a mold.

Otherwise he 36-250P looks to be close to the Saeco design

I saw that post. The Saeco has two knocks: 1) good luck finding one and 2) gas check in a bullet that doesn't need it. I thought the 36-250 looked like a slightly shorter version of the 36-270. Since this would be for a suppressor application, I was a little leery of trying a bullet as heavy as 270 going slow for fear of a baffle strike.

[mehavey]

Hence the 36-250P thought
Right Shape/Weight/Plain-Base

[cwlongshot]

I have been shooting them in my Bolt for couple years now...

Guy I follow on uTube did this with a AR by having a gas port drilled and a 9mm barrel fit with a gas block. This gave him a 1:10 twist and ability to accurately shoot 300g bullets.

Most all 350 Legends are 1:16. Marginal past 280 @ super sonic velocity. Your better with a 250 max @ Subsonic.

I have the Saeco 245g and it shoots well down to 950 as do all 250's I have tried.

I also have the 36-270c for the Whelen and shoot a number of them and find them to be mostly stabile. Drop down to 900 ish and they are not. I also have a NOE 360-232 thats even better as it has a large meplat.

These heavies can carry over 1000 fpe. They are not the same as a 300 BO sub.

CW

[richbug]

I have a 36-260P that is showing good accuracy in subsonics in 1 in16" rifles. Finding a powder that will make enough gas to cycle the gun and still be under 1050 is the current job on the bench. Playing with 4198 at the moment. Some info I have found on ballistic gell testing is that these marginally stable projectiles make huge wound cavities as they are guaranteed to tumble upon hitting something.

[cwlongshot]

I agree and would look @ 4198. It does very well for me in the 300.

H335 might also. But I haven't tried or checked.

I have been using Herco in the bolt gun. I have also considered the 9mm bbl conversion.

CW

[mehavey]

In discussion w/ another member off-line, played around with a slightly lighter Accurate 35-210B (since it was ballpark and I had one)
Pretty much limited to bolt gun and single-shot ARs since there isn't really enough gas/pressure to keep lighter bullet below 1,100 fps
Gotta stay w/fast powders to get pressure up. But in 200-220gr 16" barrel category, Clays, Bullseye, W231 N310 (etc) work well.
SOFT lead.....

With the 22" Win XPR, that means really fast to keep velocity down/pressure up.

In between rain squalls yesterday:

[Daekar]

I routinely shoot Accurate 35-245P subsonic from a 357mag 1:16 twist Encore, and one of the folks on the forum sent me some 310gr bullets which seemed to stabilize just fine for realistic subsonic ranges. I would start with something like an Accurate 35-300P or 36-310W and see how it does in your rifle, and drop down if they don't work for you.

Beyond a certain sectional density there are diminishing returns... the additional energy in the bullet is simply wasted after a complete pass through. If you encounter a problem in that area, it's my opinion that it's better to just jump to a 452/458 cartridge. You could mess with HPs in 35 caliber, but I understand they can be frustrating and very alloy-dependent.

[mehavey]

Have messed around w/ many... some better than others.
See https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4967562

[cwlongshot]

HP in 35 esp for the legend/maxi/mag are not so daunting as one might think.

Remember revolver bullets are good weight range and designed for the velocity range. So simply size accordingly and enjoy.

I have dozens and ysed tried most ofnthem to good success.

Here is my revolver cast bullets.


https://youtu.be/lKdbcGQbStI


Here is Rifle 35 cals

https://youtu.be/-aBW-QVGMec

CW

[RickinTN]

I'm sorry, I didn't read the complete thread, but I think I can help. If you want to go slower just back off your charge of Unique a half grain at a time until you get there. I'll also say, at least to my beavers, it doesn't matter. A few years ago I had a run in with some beavers on my farm in middle Tennessee. I found, after a few encounters at night, that it wasn't the sound of gunfire that spooked them, it was the light. I tried red light and green light and as soon as the light went on they went under the water and back in the den. On my most successful night I caught them just as I had barely enough light left to see. I shot 4 that night, with my 1966 vintage Marlin 336 30-30 and an Accurate molds bullet of my design weighing 185 grains. It was powered by 16 grains of IMR4227 and was about 1,500 fps. so nowhere near subsonic. So, it's not the sound, at least not in my experience that will spook them. Also, your target really won't be quite the size of a dollar bill, at least mine weren't.
Good Luck with your beaver problem,
Rick