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Thread: Darr Roller

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    If I may, I own a 10-Bore double SxS Paradox rifling. It takes about 230gr of Black and a wad to seat the slug to the proper depth. I would just say recoil is terrific. A gun maker friend had the cure. I went to a local upholstery shop and bought a square yard of 3/8th inch Jute padding. The rifle came with a wad cutter, so I just punched out a dozen to start and dipped them in Beeswax. A 900gr bullet, 125gr of Fg, and four wads makes a load that is not unpleasant for half a dozen rounds offhand.

    Rich

  2. #22
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho Sharpshooter View Post
    If I may, I own a 10-Bore double SxS Paradox rifling. It takes about 230gr of Black and a wad to seat the slug to the proper depth. I would just say recoil is terrific. A gun maker friend had the cure. I went to a local upholstery shop and bought a square yard of 3/8th inch Jute padding. The rifle came with a wad cutter, so I just punched out a dozen to start and dipped them in Beeswax. A 900gr bullet, 125gr of Fg, and four wads makes a load that is not unpleasant for half a dozen rounds offhand.

    Rich
    Thanks Rich! That's a big help to make the big .50 at least manageable if it turns out to truly be a 140 gr. case. I'm still hoping he is mistaken, and it might be a shorter cartridge. I'll find out next month as we're planning another trip to pick up more things, and will have the Sharps in hand to do a chamber casting.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Dug out my old load test scope, a Balvar 6x-24x that's big and heavy, but works well for benchrest shooting. If we ever get some cooler weather I'll cast up bullets from the mold and load up some various charges using .38-55 data, and also data from my ballistic program, to see what it likes.


  4. #24
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    That looks pretty sharp, cleaned up with the old glass and mounts.
    I see someone else believes in leaving the last bullet cast in the mold.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
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  5. #25
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapier View Post
    That looks pretty sharp, cleaned up with the old glass and mounts.
    I see someone else believes in leaving the last bullet cast in the mold.

    I leave a bullet in all my molds to ensure the cavity isn't exposed to open air, but also in case I want to double check what diameter bullet a mold drops. This one came with a bullet in the mold, which helped me determine what Barry wanted the mold to drop for the barrel he built. I checked it against the slugged bore and it's .001" over groove diameter on the base band.

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy FrankJD's Avatar
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    I do the same, leave the last cast bullet in the mold. I allow it to fully cool and wrap in Glad Press 'n' Seal to keep air off the entire mold.

    The .45-70 is the only government I trust.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankJD View Post
    I do the same, leave the last cast bullet in the mold. I allow it to fully cool and wrap in Glad Press 'n' Seal to keep air off the entire mold.

    We have low humidity all year round, so I've not had any issues that made me want to seal them externally. Likely don't need to protect the cavity either, but I do like to have a sample bullet in them.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    After getting my Darr Roller back today, I decided to make up some brass so I could fire form it. Grabbed a .32-40 case to check the chamber, and it stuck short about 3/8" of fully chambering! I did some quick checking, and appeared the base diameter was smaller than my .32-40 brass. Odd, as I wrongly assumed the case was a .32-40 blown out to .35, when in fact the chamber is the old .35-40 Maynard!
    So now I need to set up to turn down base diameters on some brass in order to allow it to fire form the body. The .32-40 cases are about .005"-.006" to large above the rim. I'll likely use .30-30 cases, as they're already shorter than .32-40, and much cheaper too. Plus I don't own a .30-30, but have lots of brass for it.
    Making a mandrel rod to fit the .30-30 neck closely, and a pin on the end to fit the flash hole so the rod supports the neck and the primer pocket as I turn the base diameter slightly.
    I'll make up about 100 pcs., and then fire form them all to fit this chamber.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    After getting my Darr Roller back today, I decided to make up some brass so I could fire form it. Grabbed a .32-40 case to check the chamber, and it stuck short about 3/8" of fully chambering! I did some quick checking, and appeared the base diameter was smaller than my .32-40 brass. Odd, as I wrongly assumed the case was a .32-40 blown out to .35, when in fact the chamber is the old .35-40 Maynard!
    So now I need to set up to turn down base diameters on some brass in order to allow it to fire form the body. The .32-40 cases are about .005"-.006" to large above the rim. I'll likely use .30-30 cases, as they're already shorter than .32-40, and much cheaper too. Plus I don't own a .30-30, but have lots of brass for it.
    Making a mandrel rod to fit the .30-30 neck closely, and a pin on the end to fit the flash hole so the rod supports the neck and the primer pocket as I turn the base diameter slightly.
    I'll make up about 100 pcs., and then fire form them all to fit this chamber.
    It would help with production output if you can use a collet setup in your lathe…you probably already know that but figured I’d put it out there.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWooldridge View Post
    It would help with production output if you can use a collet setup in your lathe…you probably already know that but figured I’d put it out there.
    I have a small Chinese made table top lathe without even automatic feed, so everything is done manually. It's going to be a somewhat slow process no matter what I do, but hoping I can figure a way to setup each case to make the same cut depth at least, which should be doable.

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    There are .30-30 "small-base" dies. Can't remember who made 'em.

    Here's how I turn cases at the base:

    1. Make a mandrel that's a snug fit at the case mouth, long enough to protrude about 1/4". Turn a little tit that will just enter the flash hole on one end, and cut a 60 degree center in the other.

    2. Chuck up a short bit of round steel stock as big or bigger than the case rim, and turn a little pin on the end that will just barely enter the primer pocket, (not bottoming). Leave this in the lathe until you are done. If you take it out, you'll have to remachine the pin to guarantee concentricity. This is your driver, or "spud".

    3. Put the mandrel in the case, set the case on the "spud" you just made, and use the live center in the tailstock to squeeze it tight.

    4. Do your turning on the case. Once you get the cross slide set, don't touch it. Back the carriage off in Z by as much as necessary when you remove the finished case and set a new one.

    I've done large batches this way using an old Emco-Meier Unimat 3 set on my computer desk so I can work seated.

    I should mention that your tool must be sharp, and set about .020 above center if it doesn't gave any back rake ground in. Nose radius zero.
    Last edited by uscra112; 11-18-2022 at 01:18 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    Suggest you search the forums for the 2013 thread on the 35-40 M.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
    Cervantes

    “Never give up, never quit.”
    Robert Rogers
    Roger’s Rangers

    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers

  13. #33
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapier View Post
    Suggest you search the forums for the 2013 thread on the 35-40 M.
    I already did, and got one result that was good info. Seems the consensus was to form cases down as close to the rim as possible, and then turn the remainder down.
    I played a little with making the mandrel to support the case neck, and primer pocket yesterday, and then proceeded to just turn the base diameter down until it fit my chamber. Had to stop there as I had to leave, but today I'll cut the case in half lengthwise to see how thick it is after turning it down. If it still looks strong enough I wont worry about swaging the cases too far, and just enough to make them easy to form before turning the remainder.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Began the process of making .35-40 Maynard cases from .32-40 cases. Started by turning down an alignment rod to fit the .32 case neck, and then turned a point on it to fit the primer flash hole.



    Once I got the rod made to align each case I slipped it into the case, and turned the base diameter of .424" down to .398" Then turned the rim diameter of .506" down to .490" also.



    The alignment rod keeps the case centered, and allows the chuck to clamp the case neck without crushing it. Next step is a small charge of maybe 3.0 grs. Bullseye, and some corn meal and wax wad over it, to fire form the main body out to .35 caliber. Then I'll trim to length (if needed) and it's ready to reload.
    Being a single shot cartridge I wont need dies, and I'll use my .35 Rem. dies to seat bullets, and crimp slightly. Only 50 to go and it's ready for powder charge and bullets!

  15. #35
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Have about 30 cases made up, so stopping at this point until I decide on the direction this Roller will take. I have a pistol grip factory lower tang, and I fitted it to the action. Having CPA build up a Sporting Creedmoor style stock now, and Gail is making it with larger width for the thicker military action, and wider top tang inletting, but with the Sporting narrow lower tang. That will save me from having to shape down the existing top tang by narrowing and thinning it. Which also allows me to not have to refinish the bluing.
    I'm planning on spinning the Darr barrel off, and D&T for a breech seater stud on the left side, so I can make up a seating tool to shoot it as a breech seated bullets. The Darr mold is a tapered bullet, so might as well make the Roller work with the bullet design.
    Hopefully I can match the new buttstock finish to the forearm, or refinish the forearm and make it match whatever finish I do on the CPA buttstock. CPA is still the most reasonably priced semi inletted stocks around. Only $115 for mine, and no extra charge for the special inletting work.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Got the donor pistol grip lower tang fitted to the action yesterday. The two mounting holes had to be enlarged to fit the through screws, and the forward edge stuck out past the receiver a bit, so had to remove some metal to allow the forearm to mount and fit properly.
    Ran into a mainspring problem since the PG tang sits lower, and needs a different mainspring to correctly situate the spring to the hammer. I have bought these from Numrich from the NOS springs they got from Remington's run of 1997. But Numrich has run out of those springs, so now I'm left without a source!
    I have a couple options, but not crazy about either really. I can remove a spring from one of my other PG Rollers and use it as a sample to heat and re-bend this spring, and then temper it correctly, and normalize it after heat treating it. Or I can build up a spacer base under the spring to reposition it in the same location as a straight grip, and then use a longer screw to attach it. This second choice also will require removing wood inside the stock to clearance it for the spacer, and spring work.
    Not sure which route I'll take, and going to keep trying to find a correct spring if one is available.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    I came up with a good fix for the pistol grip lower tang conversion! Yesterday I removed the PG tang from another Rolling Block I own and did some tracing on paper. I traced a straight grip tang with the mainspring in place. Then traced a PG tang with correct mainspring in place. And finally a PG tang with a straight grip mainspring attached.
    After getting all three traced I used my dial calipers to figure out the differences in the height and location at the end of the mainsprings. I then loosened the spring screw on the PG tang with the straight grip spring attached. At one point it began to bind on the screw, so having multiple mainsprings I took one to the bench and elongated the mounting hole with my Fordham and a burr to allow the spring to mount at a different angle, and not bind on the screw.
    Once I reinstalled the modified spring, and backed the screw off enough to allow the tip to overlay my tracing for the original PG tang and spring it was easy to determine the size and shape wedge I needed to build to make the straight grip springs fit a pistol grip tang, and work. I hand shaped a piece of billet aluminum I had, and drilled a 3/16" hole in it for the screw to pass through. Installed the wedge sandwiched under the spring to the PG tang, and reinstalled it in my action. I did a few test firings on primed cases, and it works great.
    After the successful test, I decided to fire form some of the .32-40 cases I'd turned down the web and rims on to form them to my chamber. I prepped 4 cases with 5.0 grs. Unique, and a full case of filler. Then put a wax wad over the ends and fired them into an old towel. Measured the formed cases and discovered a chamber issue! The fired cases have an ID at the mouth of .344", which is way too small for the .357" groove barrel! It appears someone reamed the chamber incorrectly as the .35-40 Maynard used a .360" bullet and should easily work with this bore.
    Now I need to decide what direction to take this? Two options are to either find a .35-40 reamer to rent or buy; or simply finish this rifle off as a breech seating rifle. The first option could get expensive as I figure nobody will have a .35-40 reamer to rent, and buying isn't cheap. Second option only involves time to make a stud and D&T the side of the barrel to mount the stud, and then build a breech seater tool to hook on that stud, and simply use this rifle as a breech seater only.
    A third option is to ream it for the ..35-30 which is a .30-30 opened up to .35, but need to investigate this cartridge more to see what specs are for length, etc. first.
    Likely I'll go with option two, if I can't locate and rent or borrow a .35-40 Maynard reamer to fix this chamber.

  18. #38
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    What about a neck ream? A straight chucking reamer might work for that. Edi. Or a piloted D reamer.
    Spell check doesn't work in Chrome, so if something is spelled wrong, it's just a typo that I missed.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulav8r View Post
    What about a neck ream? A straight chucking reamer might work for that. Edi. Or a piloted D reamer.
    That would allow .357" bullets to chamber as fixed cartridges, but then what chamber shape would I have? Something strange, or oddball that didn't fit any die set, or at least would only work by neck sizing brass.
    I'm also considering a possible reamer to make the chamber a .35-.30-30 which seems to be quite popular now, and lots of places rent these reamers. But I've not been able to locate dimensions for this reamer to make sure it would clean up the Maynard chamber fully?

    edit-I finally found some dimensions for the .35-30 based on .30-30 cases, and it's a readily available reamer. Size appears it will easily clean up this chamber and allow me to shoot fixed ammo, and I can still breech seat bullets if I wanted. But have cheap donor brass from .30-30 or .32 Win. Spl. brass which I have plenty of.
    So I'll likely rent this reamer from 4D Reamers and their gauge set to check it, and ream the barrel out to .35-30 now.
    Last edited by marlinman93; 12-30-2022 at 09:59 PM.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Another unfortunate snag, as my gunsmith friend is having heart problems, so he couldn't get the .35-.30-30 reamer and do the work. But a good guy offered to lend me his .35-40 Maynard reamer, which is what my chamber was "supposed" to be. But since whoever reamed it either didn't fully ream it, or didn't finish ream it, it's too small. So I will be reaming it to the .35-40 Maynard, and finally get the chamber done.
    CPA also sent me an email with tracking number for the custom buttstock I ordered. It will be for a heavy military action, but pistol gripped, and cut for a civilian smaller Sporting Rifle lower tang. So should make fitting it easier. Should be here later this week.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check