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Thread: HP-38/Win231 for heavy .45 Colt projectiles?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master VariableRecall's Avatar
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    HP-38/Win231 for heavy .45 Colt projectiles?

    I'd picked up the Lee 300gn .45 Colt projectile to cast boolits with. My pal has an Uberti SAA clone and it's a delight to use, and I'm glad to load for him to keep it chuggin despite the ammo shortage.

    So far, I had one run of .45 Colt with 5.2gn of Hp-38, but that loading had very poor case obturation and felt like you were shooting 9mm out of a full sized handgun. There was tons of unburnt powder everywhere and while everything got out the barrel just fine, it was not a very good experience.

    To correct the issue, I had found a 275gn loading in the Lyman Cast Bullets Handbook and rolled with that, going to a higher 6gn of HP-38.

    I had been somewhat skeptical of that loading potentially being a little on the dangerous side, so I had downloaded the latest version of Gordon's Reloading Tool and punched in the data. The results, were pretty surprising!

    With my projectile weight, seating depth, barrel length, and the cylinder gap, it had estimated that the 6gn loading would give a chamber pressure of 13,800PSI. Looking at other reloading manuals in terms of maximum PSI, that's pretty dangerously close to +P territory. While that would leave the projectile at a remarkable velocity of 747fps, putting a beautiful Uberti in the danger zone is going to be a bad situation.

    From the looks of things, Should I pursue another powder that's going to be a little safer with that deeply set of a projectile?
    With my experience with HP-38, at its ideal pressures, it burns very cleanly and is wonderfully accurate. Outside that zone, I tend to get a lack of proper case obturation, inconsistent burns, and unburnt powder everywhere.That is a not nearly as fun time.

    Looking at the Gordon's Reloading Tool data, a much more comfortable pressure to run the load would be 5.6gn, with a PSI of 12,190, and a Muzzle Velocity of 714fps. Does that sound realistic to you all on paper?

    When it comes down to it, I've got a good amount of HP-38 and I want to make use of it, but also make good use of it safely.
    Any advice is appreciated, thanks!
    Attached is the output from GRT. I'm certain to make good use of the software before I start putting together ammo that doesn't have exact backing from a loading manual.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master Wag's Avatar
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    I've never had much luck with HP-38 in handguns. Always the unburned powder all over the shooting bench. I've used 231 and had good success with it.

    From what I understand, the HP-38 is best used in shotguns which seems a little counterintuitive to me since I've always read that the shotgun powders make pretty good pistol powders. But maybe not in this case.

    --Wag--
    "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master slughammer's Avatar
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    For low pressure rounds sometimes unburnt powder is just part of the game. Don't look so hard and you won't see it.

    Start at the correct OAL with STARTING loads from the Lyman book and work your way up, maybe 0.2gr at a time.

    Look at the chronograph and the target. Consistent velocity over the chrono shows consistency. And accuracy on paper trumps all else. If you see 75-100fps spread, come back and we'll work from there.

    Unless it's hot and humid and you have big giant unburt corn flakes of red dot on your arms...then its time to look for a better load.

    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    Happiness is a couple of 38's and a bucket of ammo.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    HP38 and win231 are the same powder.

    this was told to me by hodgdon support themselves
    .


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    USPSA/IPSC

  5. #5
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    I have read that the Uberti's sometimes come with a 45acp cylinder and that they are rated for 45acp +p.
    45acp +P is somewhere around 23kpsi, so your slightly over 45colt 13,800psi should be still in the safe zone I would think. Unique might be able to safely hit 1000fps at 20kpsi with the Lee 300.
    What is your loaded length for the Lee 300 to fit your Uberti?
    Please confirm everything for yourself before hotrodding a Uberti.
    Last edited by lar45; 08-19-2022 at 05:41 PM.

  6. #6
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    I have a Cimmaron 45 colt Bisley flat top target made by Uberti, the cylinder with a case in it measures 1.673". I don't seem to have any of the Lee 45-300RFs cast or their box is buried somewhere...



  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    I use 231/HP-38 all the time in .45 Colt. Back off the bullet weight to 255 and increase your powder charge and the unburned power issue will disappear. Accurate too.
    “Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.”
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  8. #8
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    HP38/231 is a little fast for 300 gr bullets. Unique or something even slower would be a much better choice.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master VariableRecall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    I have read that the Uberti's sometimes come with a 45acp cylinder and that they are rated for 45acp +p.
    45acp +P is somewhere around 23kpsi, so your slightly over 45colt 13,800psi should be still in the safe zone I would think. Unique might be able to safely hit 1000fps at 20kpsi with the Lee 300.
    What is your loaded length for the Lee 300 to fit your Uberti?
    Please confirm everything for yourself before hotrodding a Uberti.

    The overall length of the reloaded round is 1.579. The projectile is set about 0.460 Deep into the case, so that's a lot deeper than most loadings out there.
    I'm just doing my best to be cautious as the max PSI I've seen for .45 Colt in reloading data hovers around 14K PSI.
    I'd rather not blow apart or otherwise shorten the lifespan of my pal's Uberti.

    I'm not looking to hotrod the cartridge, just to make sure that I have a load that uses the powder efficiently and burns cleanly.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master VariableRecall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Michel View Post
    I use 231/HP-38 all the time in .45 Colt. Back off the bullet weight to 255 and increase your powder charge and the unburned power issue will disappear. Accurate too.
    I keep hearing about how nice Unique is for all sorts of applications. however, I've yet to see any in stores or sold online for any reasonable price. I use HP-38 for 9mm and .38 special. From my experience with the 300gn projectile, I really like it, and I want to keep using it. I'd rather change powders than projectiles. I'd prefer a powder with a little more volume than spice, but something I could still use for more mundane cartridges.

  11. #11
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    With the Lee 300 set at 1.579", 6.1gn of HP38 should give just over 800fps and just barely under 14kpsi. At least that's what Quickload spit out...

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check