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Thread: Accurate 38/357 loads ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Accurate 38/357 loads ?

    Every caliber I have ever loaded I can hit an accuracy node within three try's, but having a hard time getting accurate loads for the 38 and 357. Most loads I have tried are grouping about 2.5" or so at 25yds.
    Guns are S&W 15-3 and GP100
    Bullets are 158 extreme plated.
    Powders I have are HP-38, CFE, and BE86 is on the way.
    Looking for medium loads, not hot.
    Any pet accuracy loads?
    Last edited by hylander; 08-17-2022 at 11:08 PM.
    Failure is not an Option

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Did you try the load listed in the extreme reloading manual using CFE? I tried one of their suggested loads in 9mm for BE86 and was satisfied with the accuracy.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    dump the plated bullets.

    I get better accuracy with coated.

    win231 is very accurate in 357 mag, and CLAYS is very accurate in 38 special.


    My Ruger GP100 4.2" shot hits on steel at 90 yards. 6.5gr Win231, SNS 158gr RNFP coated.



    Ruger LCR hitting steel plate at 90 yards.
    38 special 3.0gr CLAYS 130gr SNS coated.

    .


    NRA LIFE Member

    USPSA/IPSC

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks,
    I didn't know extreme had data, will check it out.
    I have used a lot of SNS in 45 Colt, but I have 1000 extreme to go through.
    Failure is not an Option

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    So just checked extreme data with CFE.
    Seems awfully high at 7.6gr.
    Hogdons shows 6.9 as max for same bullet weight
    Last edited by hylander; 08-18-2022 at 01:18 AM.
    Failure is not an Option

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy Hi-Speed's Avatar
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    In addition to derek45’s great advice…

    HP38 is same as W231…I have found the following accurate in 38 Special and 357 Magnum Mid Range loads using generic cast 158 gr SWC’s (I like Missouri Cast Bullets with 12 BNH hardness):

    38 Special - 4.0 grs W231 (Standard Velocity load, great load for all round use)
    38 Special +P - 4.5 grs - 4.7 grs W231 (good working loads a little more umph for added fun!)
    357 Magnum Mid Range - BE-86…use Alliant BE-86 load data here is link, back off 10% to start: https://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...8&bulletid=318

    For 357 Magnum level loads, you can still find Alliant 2400 at either Brownells or Natchezss, 13.5 grs 2400 with the 158 gr SWC is a fine all round magnum level load.

    This should get you started pretty well.

    (Sorry, I can’t help you with CFE but as others mentioned, pls refer to Hodgdon reloading data).

    Let me know how things go.
    Last edited by Hi-Speed; 08-18-2022 at 12:33 AM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by hylander View Post
    So just checked extreme data with CFE.
    Seems awfully high at 7.6gr.
    Hogdons shows 6.9 as max for same bullet weight
    Yikes! That is high, definitely avoid using that! Strange because their 9mm load was right in the ballpark suggested by the powder manufacturer.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by hylander View Post
    So just checked extreme data with CFE.
    Seems awfully high at 7.6gr.
    Hogdons shows 6.9 as max for same bullet weight

    Although I haven't used CFE pistol in the 357 magnum, I have used it in the 45 colt and 45 acp.

    I have found that it is almost the same and maybe slightly slower burning than Unique.

    My pet load with Unique in the 357 magnum is a 150-158 grain bullet at 6.3 grain.

    I would think you could find what you're looking for around 6-6.5 grains of CFE pistol.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy Low Budget Shooter's Avatar
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    I have been having success in mid-level 357 Magnum with a 158 gr bullet over 7.0 grains BE-86.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Budget Shooter View Post
    I have been having success in mid-level 357 Magnum with a 158 gr bullet over 7.0 grains BE-86.
    I think BE-86 is a better propellant than most people believe or realize. It meters better and burns cleaner than Unique, and is flash-suppressed. I've used it in 9mm, .45 ACP, .38/.357, and .45 Colt (light AND heavy). Very good to excellent results in all applications, no surprises from any load combination.
    One .45 ACP load gave me 1073 + 23 f/s with a 200 gr. PC-SWC, without weird ejection or signs of too much of anything. I plan to try it in .38 Super, very soon.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


    Carpe SCOTCH!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh75287 View Post
    I think BE-86 is a better propellant than most people believe or realize. It meters better and burns cleaner than Unique, and is flash-suppressed. I've used it in 9mm, .45 ACP, .38/.357, and .45 Colt (light AND heavy). Very good to excellent results in all applications, no surprises from any load combination.
    One .45 ACP load gave me 1073 + 23 f/s with a 200 gr. PC-SWC, without weird ejection or signs of too much of anything. I plan to try it in .38 Super, very soon.

    So, slightly slower than unique?

    Similar to CFE pistol?

    Just curious.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I believe it is slightly slower than Unique, but I don't know where CFE-Pistol ranks in there. If anything, I'D expect CFE to be a shade slower than Herco, though I've seen data that conflict with that.
    I have a 1982 Ruger Police Service Six 4" .357 through which I must have run 2000 rounds of 8.0/Unique/158 gr. LSWC or RNFP, before I realized that Lyman had lowered the max charge considerably. It reliably gave me 1275 + 25(ish) f/s, and flattened everything I shot with it. I had SLIGHT primer flattening, and ZERO sticky case extraction.
    Of the four "medium rate" pistol propellants I use extensively, MY experience suggests the following order:
    FASTER > Unique > BE-86 > Herco > AA#5 > CFE-Pistol > SLOWER.
    If other shooters' experiences suggest a different order, I would not be surprised. The order I display above is what is supported by MY results, in .357 Magnum, .45 ACP, and .45 Colt (TC/Ruger Only).
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


    Carpe SCOTCH!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Interesting. Thanks.

    I have not run CFE pistol in the 357, but I use it and Unique in the 45 acp and 45 colt.

    In the acp, I've noticed a noticeable difference in burn rate with a 230 grain lead bullet. It depends on the day, but CFE pistol has needed ~.5 grain more powder to achieve the same velocity as Unique.

    In the 45 Colt with a 250 grain lead bullet, I run the same 10.6 grains for both CFE pistol and Unique to achieve almost the same velocity.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    How much less case fill can I expect to experience when switching from Unique to BE-86?

    My concern is that in the tall/skinny 357 case, 6-7 grains of BE-86 or CFE pistol will be difficult to visually verify when in the loading process. As it is, Unique is pushing my limits of comfort when trying to verify (at a glance) case fill.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Hi-Speed's Avatar
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    6-7 grains you’ll easily see with a Mag lite looking into each case…a double charge (12-14) would be very apparent and easily detected for appropriate corrective action!

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by hylander View Post
    Thanks,
    I didn't know extreme had data, will check it out.
    I have used a lot of SNS in 45 Colt, but I have 1000 extreme to go through.
    Me neither. They sure like Power Pistol
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  17. #17
    Boolit Bub
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    Derek45---Where is that range you are shooting at. Looks like ARPC in Mo.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    You probably won't get stellar accuracy with plated projectiles. At leastI'VE never managed to. 2.5" at 25 yards is about the best I've ever heard of, using plated bullets. Try conventional cast or PC'd projectiles.
    In MY two .357s, I found an accuracy node at 7.6-7.8/BE-86/158 gr. LSWC or RNFP. PC'd bullets gave similar to slightly better accuracy, but notably higher velocities, especially from the 6" barreled revolver.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


    Carpe SCOTCH!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I don’t get good accuracy from plated bullets. I’ used Speer in .45ACP and X-Treme in 9mm/357SIG.

  20. #20
    Boolit Mold
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    Both with 158 SWC i cast and powdercoat myself.
    38 Special - 4.0-4.2 gr of 231
    357 Magnum 13.5 of 2400


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check