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Thread: 625 misfires/45 auto rim

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    625 misfires/45 auto rim

    Been having problems with misfires in my 2 625s with 45 auto rim R-P brass. Primers seated correctly CCI large pistol,was getting 2 - 3 ftf out of 6 rounds.
    I was having this problem with one pistol so I brought my other 625 same thing. After some poking around found out that the primer pockets could be shallow. So I deprived some of cases measured pocket depth .117-.118".
    So bought a primer pocket uniformed and corrected the problem.
    I've some ammo loaded in Starline brass that I'll try later.

  2. #2
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    Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    ????

    Most of the misfires I have heard about in S&W Model 25/625 revolvers has supposedly been traced to the springiness of the half or full moon clips for using .45 ACP ammo. In theory, .45 AR brass doesn't have this problem, but obviously yours do.

    I would think deepening the primer pockets would make the situation worse, not better.

    I would check your strain screw for tightness, for some reason people like to loosen them instead of doing a real trigger job. I would also check headspace of all chambers on both guns.

    For the record, the Model 25-2 that I had 30 thirty years ago never had a misfire with anything--clipped or not, factory hardball or reloads; all ACP, AR wasn't all that easy to find then.

    Robert

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    ????

    Most of the misfires I have heard about in S&W Model 25/625 revolvers has supposedly been traced to the springiness of the half or full moon clips for using .45 ACP ammo. In theory, .45 AR brass doesn't have this problem, but obviously yours do.

    I would think deepening the primer pockets would make the situation worse, not better.

    I would check your strain screw for tightness, for some reason people like to loosen them instead of doing a real trigger job. I would also check headspace of all chambers on both guns.

    For the record, the Model 25-2 that I had 30 thirty years ago never had a misfire with anything--clipped or not, factory hardball or reloads; all ACP, AR wasn't all that easy to find then.

    Robert
    One of the first thing I checked was the strain screw and it was tight.
    Didn't have the same problem with 45 auto in full moon clips in either revolver.

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    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    Like MK42, I had a very nice 25 back in the 80s that handled clipped, un clipped and auto rim with 100 percent reliability. Only problem is the revolver would not hit a barn door at a hundred yards. Beautiful gun went down the road. If I had known then what I know now. Doug Guy and Accurate Molds would have fixed the problem.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  5. #5
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    Here is mine.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It did have a professional trigger job and was set up for federal primers. It was never quite 100% with either AR brass or moon clips, but it was good. This lasted for 20 years or so until recently when it started being about 80% reliable even with Federal primers. A local gunsmith looked it over and replaced the mainspring. That didn’t fix it. He finally concluded that the bobbed hammer was the most likely cause. He had an old target style hammer in his miscellaneous box so he put it on. Fired 80 AR rounds yesterday and all but one went bang. We will see how it goes. However I will also note that I never have cleaned the primer pockets. I will do that when I next reload for it.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    625 misfires/45 auto rim

    If they’re PC guns, the lighter mainspring requires soft primers, in my experience.

    Also check you’re strain screws.

    Also an Apex extended firing pin might give a little more oomph.
    Last edited by Jtarm; 08-17-2022 at 11:50 PM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by tejano View Post
    Here is mine.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It did have a professional trigger job and was set up for federal primers. It was never quite 100% with either AR brass or moon clips, but it was good. This lasted for 20 years or so until recently when it started being about 80% reliable even with Federal primers. A local gunsmith looked it over and replaced the mainspring. That didn’t fix it. He finally concluded that the bobbed hammer was the most likely cause. He had an old target style hammer in his miscellaneous box so he put it on. Fired 80 AR rounds yesterday and all but one went bang. We will see how it goes. However I will also note that I never have cleaned the primer pockets. I will do that when I next reload for it.
    That makes no sense. A bobbed hammer should set primers off better, not worse. Skeletonized hammers are the best of the best for lock time and reliability. If that gun has the separate firing pin, make sure that is clean.

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  9. #9
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master slughammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocSavage View Post
    ..... After some poking around found out that the primer pockets could be shallow. So I deprived some of cases measured pocket depth .117-.118".
    So bought a primer pocket uniformed and corrected the problem.....
    So you fixed the problem by uniforming the pockets?

    I wonder if the discrepancies in the pockets were causing an issue with the anvil not being supported? Did the tool perhaps take out a small shelf or fat radius at the bottom of the pocket?

    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    The depth of the pockets are now .122" and any built up residue has been removed as well. There was a fair amount of shavings from the uniforming as well. Not going to reload all 100 just 20 random cases if the problem still persists off to a gunsmith for repairs.

  12. #12
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    Let us know how those worked.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    That makes no sense. A bobbed hammer should set primers off better, not worse. Skeletonized hammers are the best of the best for lock time and reliability. If that gun has the separate firing pin, make sure that is clean.
    ^^^^^^^^^^

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pworley1 View Post
    Let us know how those worked.
    Going to the range on Friday. The failure to fire is happening with 2 different 625s that's why I think it's the R-P brass. Don't recall having this problem with 45 acp in moon clips or Starline auto rim brass.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master slughammer's Avatar
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    Feeler gages and caliper.

    You could measure the gap between the brass and the frame with feeler gages. Measure both moon clipped 45acp and the autorim.

    The rim thickness on the autorim should be the same as the sum of the acp rim plus the moon clip thickness.

    If the autorim-rims are too thin, your firing pin won't reach correctly.

    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    That makes no sense. A bobbed hammer should set primers off better, not worse. Skeletonized hammers are the best of the best for lock time and reliability. If that gun has the separate firing pin, make sure that is clean.
    You are absolutely correct about improved lock time, but it's been my understanding that some guns in addition to mainspring force, require a certain mass of hammer/striker to set off the primer. For example, titanium firing pins in an AR sometimes don't set off 5.56x45 primers.

    All that said, I have two M25-2s, two M1917s, and a M625-3, all unmodified, and all digest ammo loaded in R-P Auto Rim brass.

    Noah

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    slughammer suggestion - use a feeler gauge to check headspace with the R-P brass. Very long ago (before internet) I too had S&W 25 that was not accurate, probably chamber throats. I did have several misfires with factory loaded Remington 45 Auto Rim with that revolver, moon clipped 45 ACP, including US military issue always worked . I also have 32 special R-P brass with very thin rims, absolute SAAMI min, compared to other brass. I just received back order of Starline 45 AR but have not tried it in my two S&W Brazilian .45's, only used moon/half/third clips so far, without problem. There are many ways to get smooth, light triggers on S&W's without putzing with the mainspring.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Ok,just got back from the range with my 625. Firt off took the cylinder off cleaned under the ejector star just in case debris under it might be part of the problem. Cases primed with RCBS hand priming tool CCI primers seated slightly below primer pocket. 5 grs Red Dot 200 gr swc. Mixture of double and single action firing 1 failure to fire out of 20 rds. So my guess of poorly cut primer pockets was correct. These were R-P cases will try the rounds loaded in Starline brass later this week. Will update afterwards.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I have had two of the Smith 45 ACP revolvers. I primarily used 45 Auto Rim brass.
    No problems.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Smith & Wesson revolvers that misfire

    Eliminate/Reduce cylinder end play. Shims are made for this. Midwayusa has a Youtube video.

    Brass rim thickness should be measured & compared to SAAMI standards. 45 Auto Rim.

    A test for a Smith and Wesson revolver, model 28, 357mag., may work on other guns also<> Gun empty.
    Dryfire gun and hold trigger fully to rear.
    Cock hammer with thumb.
    Hook a weight around the hammer (for example 3 1/2 LB minimum weight for 357).
    The hammer must not move rearward when the gun is lifted.
    The hammer should lift 3 1/2 lbs without going into the cocked position.

    Primers can be flush with the case head to .008" below.

    Measure hammer nose/firing pin protrusion.

    Is hammer rubbing frame? This slows the hammer. There are shims for this also.

    Last, check headspace.

    Better yet, see a pistol smith.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check