Inline FabricationWidenersTitan ReloadingMidSouth Shooters Supply
Lee PrecisionRotoMetals2Repackbox

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: Three Die Sets Rant...

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    JAX, FL
    Posts
    1,085

    Three Die Sets Rant...

    This going to be a rant, but I just can't help myself.

    I was just now looking for 45-70 dies on Midway and MidSouth. To my irritation they have virtually no listings for individual dies. I do not/will not seat and crimp at the same time, especially cast bullets. So all those three die sets are lacking from the get go, but not being able to buy a separate or second seat/crimp die by the same manufacturer really irks me. It is what it is, but I couldn't come up with the four dies I need from any of the manufacturers, meaning I'm likely to end up with a brand new set of mismatched dies from two, three or even four different manufactures and from different vendors. Maybe it's the retailers and not the brands but it still bugs me.

    Yea, I'm whining, but it shouldn't be all that difficult and I shouldn't have to go to several different vendor sites to get a single set of dies for a single cartridge.

    Rant over.......
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


  2. #2
    Moderator


    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Way up in the Cascades
    Posts
    6,569
    One does not have to seat and crimp at the same time, do they? That's an adjustment of the seating die that makes that possible or to not happen as you wish. You can finish the job with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

    DG

  3. #3
    I agree with your problem. It would seem that, with all of the activity in 45-70 reloading, a 4 die set would be available.

    However, I hardly have a set of matched dies that I actually use anymore. Back a million years ago, when I was a poor working man, I bought Lee carbide sizing dies for 45 Auto and 38 Spl, my two main rounds at the time (as well as now). Out the window went matched sets!

    Then, I bought Lyman M Dies and Redding expander plugs for boolits, which is all I use now in all calibers.

    As Der Gebirgsjager said, you can always go with the Lee Factory Crimp Die (which I've also added to a lot of my die sets, as well). Or, you can get the bullet seating die from Lee, Redding, Lyman, etc..

    It is a real pain to use the same die for seating and crimping, as one must constantly readjust the seating plug when the die's function is changed. I used the 38-357 washer in my RCBS set for the seating so I didn't need to alter the lock ring setting.

    For 45 Auto and a lot of others, I use taper crimp dies and Lee Factory Crimp dies, so this problem doesn't exist.

    Lee doesn't sell the collet sizer for 45-70 anymore, but it is also a pain because this is a large size die and the bushing has to be removed to use it. Now that I have another single stage press, the Rockchucker can do most of its work without the bushing.

    BTW, all my dies have either the old RCBS aluminum split locking rings or the new Hornady rings. I hate the Lee rings (especially now that they've got these gear wheel teeth and a stupid wrench that can only get lost) and those with a set screw like RCBS uses. Back awhile ago, someone did use the thick aluminum rings with a set screw. At least they had the courtesy to put a lead shot in the set screw bore, so that the die threads don't get deformed.

    Overall, nobody sells the sorts of dies I want and I've built my own sets to do whatever jobs I want done. But yes, it is inconvenient, so your rant is appropriate. But, if the companies took your advice, they would probably start selling single dies only (no sets) for the price of a full set -- anything to raise prices, you know.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    4,831
    I’ve bought individual dies as needed directly from Lyman and on e-Bay as well. I like loading gear that comes in orange boxes.
    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  5. #5
    Moderator Emeritus

    georgerkahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    South of the (Canada) border
    Posts
    2,268
    Der Gebirgsjager is correct re it being one's choice whether to crimp or not vis same seating stroke. A friend has a few large washers he puts in press under seating die, with said die set to perfectly seat the bullet. He then removes die, the washers, and reinstalls the die to provide what he views as a perfect crimp.

    I will add to OP rant, though, as I have "a pile" of dies I've never used which came in factory sets. If one wishes to purchase, say, a Competition Seating Die (CSD)-- the least expensive option is often to purchase the plain-Jane set, and then purchase the CSD -- most of the time cheaper than having purchased each of the three dies as individual purchases...

    geo

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy wilecoyote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    venice, italy
    Posts
    224
    [I]I was just now looking for 45-70 dies on Midway and MidSouth. To my irritation they have virtually no listings for individual dies.[/I...

    when we were allowed to buy these items directly in the U.S., every time I needed a single die I was able to get it from the customer service of various manufacturers ( Forster, Redding, Lee, etc. ).
    maybe it is still so possible ...
    ...next thing you know they'll want your pistol and your tobacco...

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8,067
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 08-16-2022 at 06:42 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  8. #8
    Moderator


    Minerat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Jefferson County, CO
    Posts
    7,848
    I just seat and crimp in 2 steps using the same die. I use an finished un-crimped cartridge to set the crimp first with the seating stem backed out of the way so it does not affect the OAL then lock the ring. I remove the die from the press and use the washer out of my 44mag/44spcl dies to raise the die so it won't crimp and then set the seater stem to the final OAL. That way once I get done seating I only have to removed the spacer ring and back the seating stem out of the way to crimp. Using this method you only have to set the die once for both operations.
    Steve,

    Life Member NRA
    Member: Clear Creek County Sportsman Association


    Kilo Charlie zero Golf Papa Tango (kc0gpt)

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    2,254
    Lot of options to do whatever you want to.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    6,622
    I load rifle ammo on a single stage.
    I adjust the die to seat, run 'em all through, adjust the die to roll crimp, and run 'em through again.

    If you want a single die-- put a WTB ad on the S&S section.
    Lots of guys have gotten just one die there.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
    This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    JAX, FL
    Posts
    1,085
    for clarification my rant was simply for ranting's sake.

    I appreciate the fiddling options for using the seat/crimp die in separate operations but I am trying to set up a newbie for reloading just this one cartridge (45-70) without any complications.

    Although I've never used one, I'm almost thinking the Classic Lee Loader may be adequate for his needs, but watching a single YouTube video there seems to be a good opportunity for inconsistency from round to round (crimping wise in this video). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpV7Qg6zs-M
    Last edited by oley55; 08-16-2022 at 06:49 PM.
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    8,067
    Quote Originally Posted by oley55 View Post
    Although I've never used one, I'm almost thinking the Classic Lee Loader may be adequate for his needs, but watching a single YouTube video there seems to be a good opportunity for inconsistency from round to round (crimping wise in this video). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpV7Qg6zs-M
    An actual single stage press with real dies and the lee crimp is a far better option in my opinion.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Butler, MO
    Posts
    8,326
    I normally seat and crimp in one step, I have personally never had a problem doing so.

    I do however seat and crimp in two steps for the .38-55, simply because I have one of Redding's competition micrometer seating dies for it. I did not buy it new for retail price, it came in a package deal from a local gunshow for about half price several years ago.

    Since I have an eight hole Lyman turret press it doesn't take much extra effort to screw in the extra die.

    Robert

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


    Finster101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SW Fla
    Posts
    2,229
    Ther is no way I would reload with a whack-a-mole. You would be better off finding a 310 tool and dies than that thing.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Location
    Godzone country ,New Zealand
    Posts
    192
    whackamoles make good amunition.....even my 2nd edition nosler manual says its better than factory ammunition,possibly says more about the factories at that time....
    now having just finally got a hold of some 44 magnum dies...3 die set...after having borrowed others,4 dies and it struck me as cleaning the insides of the dies...a fella COULD seat a flat nose boolit with the expander die.....back expander plug way way out/up,then screw die in deeper till correct depth of seating was found. the job of a seater is after all to hold projectile/boollit still while the case is slipped up around it... I got given a fellas two spare dies (same issue as OP) SO now I have a spare expander and spare resize/decapping die........I shall ponder this some more but cme to same conclusion as above...it would be simple matter to back seating die out...so no crimp when seating....then back out seater plug and screw die back down and run the rounds back through to add the tiny bit of crimp..... it wasnt untill took dies apart to clean that I grasped the difference from bottle neck rifle dies....my old mind is slow to grasp new concept...got it now.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Location
    Godzone country ,New Zealand
    Posts
    192
    and for what its worth I DONT CRIMP .45/70...... havent seen the need...

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy Brassmonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Danby VT
    Posts
    186
    My lee 45-70 dies work just fine, I use a standard 45 cal belling die for cast. as with most things no kit or set is complete.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Eastern WY
    Posts
    1,601
    Most 45-70 dies are 3 die sets, size/decap, neck expand, and seater/crimp, the addition of the Lee Factory Crimp, often sold individually completes the set. A PROPERLY adjusted seat/crimp die can load very good ammunition if cases are ALL the same length plus/minus a thou or so AND the bullet has 'crimp' groove or cannelure. I use a Lee 4-hole Classic Turret Press, set-up all the dies in a turret, everything stays adjusted until change needed. I find uniform case length is critical to making uniformly crimped cartridges when a crimp is needed for tube-feed lever guns and revolvers. A compressed powder charge for tube feeds or very light recoiling revolver cartridges may only need enough crimp to remove the 'flare/bell' for smooth feeding.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    2,399
    I’m with @georgerkahn, ammo cans full of die boxes with one or two dies in each. Not uncommon to have 2 or even 3 different brands in one toolhead.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Buffalo WY
    Posts
    753
    I find the expanding die the problem child in a three die set, rarely do they work for cast bullets. Only my Redding .41 Mag dies came with a proper expander for cast bullets. Die makers default to jacketed bullets on their expander dies,I have no less than 15 custom expanders for cast bullets.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check