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Thread: Unique find; 30-pound "Tin pot"...

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    IDK, but am of the belief that lead, in whatever form, is not suitable to store dry or liquid consumables, for man or beast. If its constituents indicate lead, I believe I will be surprised, and suspect some of the lowering of IQ in China / Third World is the product of bad management of materials that we know create human mental and physical defects. No EPA or FDA there, so no worries, eh? Maybe one day every man will be pulled out of the mire and educated to a common-hazards baseline. I won't hold my breath though...what you don't know can kill you.

    Also...
    [SARCASM=ON]
    I really appreciate whoever hammered the "1-Star" rating for this thread. There is a current Country Song, which lyrics are paraphrased here, "What were you thinking?"
    [SARCASM=OFF]
    Last edited by Land Owner; 08-22-2022 at 05:34 AM.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickf1985 View Post
    Is this it?
    https://www.reemandansie.com/auction...lot=60072&sd=1

    Take this image https://postimg.cc/30Rq2Rpk, or any of your other images, and right click on it and then click on "search image with Google lens".

    https://lens.google.com/search?p=AV3...V0b1p3PT0iXQ==
    Looks like that is what it is. If so, in Feb is sold for about $212 US. I'd think twice about melting it down unless I really needed to.
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

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  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    The two-piece "Closure Plate with dongle" and "Barrel Sleeve" were most likely a one-piece entity. They appear as one piece in the linked "Chinese pewter tea jar".

    The working theory is that elongation and thinning of the sidewalls from out-of-round interference (or junk in the crack) led to tearing apart at its web. The OD of one is very close to the ID of the other. The thinned metal on the dismembered portion of the sleeve is very close in thickness to the remanent rim on the plate. As a one-piece entity in close tolerance, that's a "built to fail" location.

    The sleeve, when on a flat surface and fitted beneath the plate, dongle down, judging elongation and that material has been lost, might be repairable. A round mold, in wood, could be fashioned to "squeeze" the out-of-round and thinned sleeve (light heat and "bang fit") to a slightly smaller diameter - interference to be eliminated.

    After that, I am not sure how to proceed. Make a metal mold(?), melt some of my Tin, pre-heat the broken pieces, and rejoining the plate to the sleeve. If it was easy, anybody could do it. How to do it RIGHT, without knowledge and experience working with liquid tin, will take some finesse and a lot more thinking - if at all.

    A Net search of the cartouche markings indicate the metal is Tin and the Company's name. It was Made in China. There is still more research to do...

    Interesting...I have moved from "pewter score" to considering Metal Repair in Tin.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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    ...continuing




    Looking at the plate you can make out faint raised lip.



    The sleeve in profile, missing "rolled over" tin from mine and other's "abuse"




    Need a level surface to make measurements but the pieces go together like this (dramatic gap of missing tin)










    Again, need a level surface and that's a "good bit" of tin to make up. But it is very thin there, was thin there from the start I think, and probably contributed to its demise in the first place.

    My son Googled the cartouche.




    The base material is Tin according to the translation. More data to investigate, perhaps even an existing company to contact

    Last edited by Land Owner; 08-22-2022 at 01:46 PM.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Older forms of European pewter contained lead. I think modern food service pewter has to be lead free, but that’s a change that came after it became known that food or drink and lead are an unhealthy mix. Non food service pewter in decorative items can contain lead even to this day.

    As for Asian pewter, modern Indonesian versions like Selangor are lead free. Items made in China and Hong Kong seemed to me heavy for the size, darker than most pewter, softer and didn’t have tin cry (though not all genuine pewter does either), and the one large decorative piece I had, marked “Hong Kong” was mostly lead.

    Your piece, though, is different from any I’ve seen in terms of size, form and the actually markings saying it’s tin. It’s a really interesting find, no matter what it’s made of and what you do with it.
    Last edited by kevin c; 08-25-2022 at 12:35 PM.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Agree that it was once a single assembly. Looking at your fourth image, it looks like the sleeve was made long, the lid part fitted inside it, and then the end of the sleeve rolled over onto the bottom of the lid and probably soldered.

    Repairing with a butt joint in thin material would be difficult I think, so I’d opt to remake the entire sleeve. Maybe started as a thick washer and then spun to final shape against a very slightly tapered mandrel. See metal spinning.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    ...spun to final shape against a very slightly tapered mandrel. See metal spinning.
    My head is spinning. Metal working of that nature is not in my Wheelhouse. I am going to leave it alone. Perfection in outcome on a first try with mandrel making, heat, liquid metal, what could go wrong, is, for me, a Bridge Too Far...and:

    BNE's XrF results are in - and they are:

    Pb - 89.9%
    Sb - 5.0%
    Sn - 5.1%






    Through the anticipation, all of the math, the cartouche hinting, my expectation has turned to dust in the wind. I have purchased a likable Curio that is mostly LEAD. A tip of the cap and thank you to BNE. My spouse is pleased that a Stay of Execution has been placed on the pot, which is a very nice pot.

    My mind finds it inconceivable that the Chinese make LEAD pots for use in holding products intended for human consumption. It is likely that my own misconception has led me to this surreality and the REAL purpose and intent of this pot has not yet been uncovered. I am though, no longer "white hot" in that discovery.

    As 90/5/5 alloy, it remains boolit making material hiding in plain sight.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Bummer, but it is still a cool artifact.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Owner View Post
    My head is spinning. Metal working of that nature is not in my Wheelhouse. I am going to leave it alone. Perfection in outcome on a first try with mandrel making, heat, liquid metal, what could go wrong, is, for me, a Bridge Too Far...and:

    BNE's XrF results are in - and they are:

    Pb - 89.9%
    Sb - 5.0%
    Sn - 5.1%






    Through the anticipation, all of the math, the cartouche hinting, my expectation has turned to dust in the wind. I have purchased a likable Curio that is mostly LEAD. A tip of the cap and thank you to BNE. My spouse is pleased that a Stay of Execution has been placed on the pot, which is a very nice pot.

    My mind finds it inconceivable that the Chinese make LEAD pots for use in holding products intended for human consumption. It is likely that my own misconception has led me to this surreality and the REAL purpose and intent of this pot has not yet been uncovered. I am though, no longer "white hot" in that discovery.

    As 90/5/5 alloy, it remains boolit making material hiding in plain sight.
    Most pewter used for food and liquid storage, here and abroad, was lead based up until pretty recently. I have a modern liquor flask made around the 50's that is mostly lead. Copper water pipe was soldered with lead based solder up until the 90's in the US.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Yours still has more tin than my Hong Kong item which ended up in the pot anyway, not being nearly as interesting; and now you’ve given yours a bit of a backstory as a conversation piece.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Owner View Post
    …whoever hammered the "1-Star" rating for this thread…
    I was just reading another thread, scrolling down and pausing with my right thumb, when I saw I’d activated the right side “rate this thread” pull down menu. Another couple touches while reading and not looking could easily have given that thread an entirely at random and accidental rating.

    I’d bet it happens a lot.

  12. #32
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    I always ask myself two questions about pewter/tin objects. Is it worth more as an object than as alloy? That value has a range to it. What I paid is one end, what it would sell for at the other end so say at lowest $3 a pound to a high of around $8 a pound. Second question is this item unique enough that destroying it for the weight in tin seems "wrong" on some level. If I haven't ever seen one like it before after years of scrounging lead and pewter that is a good clue it is a fairly uncommon or unique item.

    On occasion I have been able to sell items to local antique barn at wholesale for more than the value of the tin if I was to sell it retail. Someone gets a nice punch bowl and revere cups and I get a greater cash value than the tin would fetch. Win-win. This usually does involve some additional work checking sold prices on ebay or antique sales. Note I said sold prices, people ask for stupid amounts of money for battered junk pewter.

    Then there are as we all know the stuff wife (or myself) find a bit too interesting to turn into a puddle. Those have a bit of shelf space set aside in an attempt to limit the growth of that collection.

    I should add if the pewter has a very black patina it generally means it has a lead content and is pretty old. Found a couple of small plates that are black with age and the design is from the late 1700's to early 1800's so I didn't melt them. Figure they made it this long I'm not going to be the one that destroys them. If nothing else I have a decent collection of solder from garage sales that means I can avoid using all found pewter as alloy.
    Scrap.... because all the really pithy and emphatic four letter words were taken and we had to describe this source of casting material somehow so we added an "S" to what non casters and wives call what we collect.

    Kind of hard to claim to love America while one is hating half the Americans that disagree with you. One nation indivisible requires work.

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  13. #33
    Boolit Master


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    I'll bet that those dark plates from the 18th century are high in lead as well, Roger.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    I am now wondering if the piece of the lid that was assayed might have come from another source - a different alloy - than the rest of the pot? The only way to know is to "carve out" a small chink of the pot and send that to BNE...something I am thinking seriously about.

    Like a pit bull...I have not yet let go of the tire.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Definitely lead mixed in with it. How much? Probably quite a bit. My guess is there close to as much lead as there is tin. I have some old ducks with gold colored wings that are dark like it. Figured there’s a lot of lead mixed in with them so I don’t melt them. I stick to the modern marked pewter dinnerware that looks aluminum to silver in color.

    Whoops…didn’t read all the posts…89% lead.

    Ouch! …at least I know how much are in my ducks. I paid $5 for both. I can live with that.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Appreciate the contribution Tripplebeards. Yeah, the "knowing" of the interior lid's assay has come with a certain amount of tongue in cheek "butt ache", but that's mostly from this Monday's colonoscopy.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Lol....I have a hemroid the size of a silver dollar from brushhogging my property last week...I'll trade you. Didn't sleep for 2 nights till I started sleeping on my side and back. I'll have to post pics of my "lead" ducks. They are pretty neat.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    Taking the thread down another rung into the weeds...my Gastroenterologist's TEAM spent about 59 minutes MORE there Monday than any TP I have ever used. I feel reamed. I cannot, have not, and will not say that I "feel your pain" - for a whole lot of reasons...lol. Bushhogging, for me, is enjoyable, and has its hazards, the least of which is a PITA. Hope you feel better soon. I hear Prep-H is soothing for that...
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Here’s one of my ducks that do not have any markings on them. They are darker than my other pewter items next to it. It also bends really easy.



    I think it’s bottom on backwards.lol


    I will start feeling better now…


  20. #40
    Boolit Master

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    What a "vulgar display of loot", as my father would say. That's a lot of pewter there.

    Yeah, backward. Its little feet are pointed in the wrong direction. Hollow body? Heavy? Wondering how it was originally used? Interesting piece, as a photo. I could turn it into "duck soup" though.

    Dull gray color and "easily" bent could mean high lead content. Thin "silver" pewter pieces bend, even the thicker, darker colored "thin ones" (goblets pictured in post #15), but only by "determined" force applied.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check