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Thread: OAC collector show

  1. #1
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    OAC collector show

    We had our annual OAC two day collector gun show this weekend. I did a display of Ballard rifles barreled and built in George C. Schoyen's Denver Colo. shop in the late 1800's. Also some Schoyen and Ballard gun tools.

    A .32-40 with extra heavy 4.5 weight barrel.


    A .38-55 With half octagon barrel on top, and a .33-47 half octagon bottom. Both 32" barrels, but top is a false muzzle Schoyen barrel.


    And the various tools.


    Sitting at my table Sat. morning when a fella approached me and showed me this bullet lube pump he wanted me to have. Immediately recognized it as an H.M. Pope bullet lube pump, which he already knew it was. He offered me a price that was extremely reasonable, and wanted it to go to a collector who owned Pope rifle(s), so I was excited to get it. Very few were ever made by Harry Pope, so a great old tool to own for single shot collectors, or antique tool collectors.




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    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    Nice when stuff like that happens.
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    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
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    A true collector wants artifacts to end up where they belong and that belonged with you. Just love seeing your museum quality collection Val.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Thanks!
    I really appreciated his wanting the tool to be with a collector, and a Pope rifle. It's nice to be reassured there are some good folks in this hobby who value care taken for old guns and tools more than profit.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry my Lear Jet was in the shop for its annual checkup, I’d have loved to fly out there for that event!

    I’d love to examine that mechanical breech seater in person… I’ve never seen one quite like it. The Pope lube pump is a fine addition to your collection and display. Several years ago at an OGCA show I bought one of the recreations that had been a decade or two earlier by Joe Ruth. I loaned it to a friend and it hasn’t made it home yet. I hope I’ll get it back eventually to lube my 25 cal bullets. BTW, are you familiar with another style of re- and decapper from either Schoyen or Petersen that had a finger loop on the body and only one moving lever? David Arawinko made a run of them about 20 years ago, using a design he developed based on a much earlier one that I was thinking was S or P. It used RCBS shell holders and primer punches, so it was quite handy.

    I’ve done most of my Schuetzen loading using Jake Simmons re- and decappers and Charlie Dell lube pumps along with mechanical breech seaters from Willis Gregory. None was “original” from the first “Golden Age” but now have become somewhat classic on their own. In my case, especially back then, the goal was to have stuff I could use.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  6. #6
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    Sorry my Lear Jet was in the shop for its annual checkup, I’d have loved to fly out there for that event!

    I’d love to examine that mechanical breech seater in person… I’ve never seen one quite like it. The Pope lube pump is a fine addition to your collection and display. Several years ago at an OGCA show I bought one of the recreations that had been a decade or two earlier by Joe Ruth. I loaned it to a friend and it hasn’t made it home yet. I hope I’ll get it back eventually to lube my 25 cal bullets. BTW, are you familiar with another style of re- and decapper from either Schoyen or Petersen that had a finger loop on the body and only one moving lever? David Arawinko made a run of them about 20 years ago, using a design he developed based on a much earlier one that I was thinking was S or P. It used RCBS shell holders and primer punches, so it was quite handy.

    I’ve done most of my Schuetzen loading using Jake Simmons re- and decappers and Charlie Dell lube pumps along with mechanical breech seaters from Willis Gregory. None was “original” from the first “Golden Age” but now have become somewhat classic on their own. In my case, especially back then, the goal was to have stuff I could use.

    Froggie
    Yes Charlie, I have seen the other style re-decapper tool that Schoyen sold. Not sure which was first though?
    Barry Darr also made a copy of the Pope lube pump, but before his passing I spoke with him about his version as I had a Darr lube pump also. I asked about differences, and he made some subtle changes to make his different so they wouldn't get his stamp polished off and sold as Pope pumps. His had a longer lube chamber, and his had a brass end on the rod that ejects the bullets from the die.
    I have a Dell lube pump, along with a few other lube pumps by different makers. Most pretty nice. I also have a kit to make another Dell lube pump, but haven't ever assembled the pieces. I have 4 or 5 extra dies to fit an aluminum bodied pump I have here from an unknown maker? Looks similar to a Dell, but not a Dell.
    The breech seating tool is a copy of a Schoyen that Charlie Pool used to make. His nephew Jerry Cleave made himself one, and made this one for me. He told me he'd never make another as the block that fits into the breech opening takes so much machine work he could never sell one. It's an amazing tool (as all Jerry's tools are!) and works better than any breech seater I've found for a Ballard.
    I have another he makes for the Hepburns and Hi Walls, and they're much simpler, but work the same. He still makes them for other makes of rifles.
    Last edited by marlinman93; 08-16-2022 at 02:14 PM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    That Pope piece made your show, didn’t it?
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    As we’re going through some of the newer but still discontinued tool, I’d like to find a lube pump by Andela. From what I understand, they took standard Lyman sizing dies and lube sticks. They aren’t as elegant as that Pope, or even one of Charlie’s, but an interesting variation on the theme.
    I had to laugh when you mentioned your “kit” to make a Dell pump. I was at his house years ago and he wasn’t making any more at the time. I pleaded with him to let me know when and how one would be available, so he took me down to the shop. He told me to hold out my hands then started opening boxes and drawers and pulling out parts until I had a D-I-Y set to build one. I had to get the body tube threaded inside and knurled outside and make a bullet insert, and I was good to go.

    I’ve never seen anyone make a simple design for a mechanical breech seater for a Ballard. The best I’ve ever seen required altering the rifle by adding a peg for the tool to engage… but that requires altering a Ballard!

    Froggie

    PS Truth to tell, a big reason I got interested in Schuetzen was all the neat gizmos and gimmicks that were used in the process.
    "It aint easy being green!"

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Went to this show Saturday. Needed a new wallet and Large Rifle Magnum primers. found 300 primers for $25.00. No wallet.
    This was a true gun show. No wallets, jerky , candy or other nicknacks. Truely an enjoyable experience. Looking forward to next year.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


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    I saw your display. Nice show.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Thanks guys! Wish you'd have stopped and chatted while at the show.

    Charlie,
    I own a Andela lube pump that JerryH sold me. He often comes by some newer old tools when his shooting friends stop shooting as they get older. He's found some other tools for me that were made by people like Bo Clerke, or later gunsmiths.
    Andela lube pump:



    I have a plow handle breech seating tool I built from scratch that was pretty easy to build. The only time consuming part to make was the hook that straddles the hammer and hooks on the back of the breech block. I filed it out of a solid block of brass and made rough cuts on my bandsaw, and then filed the rest to shape. Turned the wood handle on my metal lathe, and drilled the center hole. It works great and clears scopes too.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapier View Post
    That Pope piece made your show, didn’t it?
    Yes, that pretty much made the whole show for me!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for the additional pix, mm93. Was I told right that the Andela lube pump takes standard Lyman Lube dies and lube sticks? It must be pretty large and ungainly. I have one of those ideal breech seaters like you show in the same picture. Mine came in what was left of the original box and was set up for 22 Hornet. Who breech seats 22 Hornet???
    My old buddy Jake Simmons provided me with his idea of what a Ballard mechanical seater should be, but I must confess I’ve never used it. Because of the way the Ballard breech block drops down into the receiver, all of the mechanical breech seaters seem really complicated to me. I guess I’m spoiled to my high walls!

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  14. #14
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    One of my Pope barrels is for .22WCF, and I'd bet it was shot or designed to be shot as a breech seater. My guess is since it's a Ballard rifle the likelihood it was a push seater is pretty high. And I also have a .22WCF push seater I found at a gun show, so somebody did it. Betting the bullet was pretty easy to seat for a .22WCF too!

  15. #15
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    What a beautiful collection!

    Art
    ”Only accurate rifles are interesting”
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman1602 View Post
    What a beautiful collection!

    Art
    Thanks!
    Hopefully I'll have one more Schoyen barreled Ballard soon. Since I picked up another Schoyen barrel last week that's fitted for a Ballard rifle. Just need to look through my Ballard collection and see if one of them might have a less than perfect bore and can be swapped to this .40-50SS Schoyen barrel.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check