So I need some help...Just got into progressive, wet tumbling, and Lee APP...HELP!!!!

[GWS]

Exactly

Which begs the question......What if you size on one and use a regular expander on two, powder on three (w/o the ptx), then you still have 4 and 5 to seat and crimp? That must mean Lee's regular expander won't center the case for the priming well enough.

Then another question: What if you have a bullet feeder......on the Loadmaster can you charge with the ptx on 2? That then gives you 3 to feed bullets, then 4 & 5 to seat and crimp? That all depends on the case-activated Powder measure linkage. You'd have to prime off the press first.

[Stopsign32v]

Which begs the question......What if you size on one and use a regular expander on two, powder on three (w/o the ptx), then you still have 4 and 5 to seat and crimp? That must mean Lee's regular expander won't center the case for the priming well enough.

Then another question: What if you have a bullet feeder......on the Loadmaster can you charge with the ptx on 2? That then gives you 3 to feed bullets, then 4 & 5 to seat and crimp? That all depends on the case-activated Powder measure linkage. You'd have to prime off the press first.

Hmmm...What would be the benefit of expanding on 2 and then powder on 3? I'd have to use another powder through die on 3. Wouldn't that be another expander die?

[GWS]

Hmmm...What would be the benefit of expanding on 2 and then powder on 3? I'd have to use another powder through die on 3. Wouldn't that be another expander die?

On most presses you have two ways to expand pistol cases....either an expander die, or a PTX (powder-thru expander) The PTX idea came later when people wanted to consolidate more functions on less stations.....mainly to allow crimping to be a separate function..... Lyman created M-dies later too, to create square cavities 1/16" deep so bullets could be dropped straight and true, without the tendency for a bullet to tilt on the otherwise typical flare or bevel.

Lee Universal expander is not made to drop powder through....it just expands necks, coming with several sizes of plugs, but they only flare. Noe company even makes an "M" style plug in any diameter you need for Lee's universal.....which is what I would prefer. But what I don't know is the answer to your question: if Lee makes a powder die where the p.m. can drop powder directly without expanding, or if they have to have a PTX under it. Here's the two products Lee Universal on the Left, NOE plug on the right. (Noe sells both):


Notice the 1/16" ledge on the Noe rather than a angle as on the Lee plugs.
Noe link: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...ory/expanders/

Awe! Now I know.....Lee does make powder thru dies that don't expand necks....a long one and a short one. Here's a link to the short one:

https://leeprecision.com/short-charging-die.html

Just place the powder measure on top.....

So then in a nut shell:

0: Deprime brass on the APP and wet tumble
1: Size deprimed brass (no priming rod)
2: Expand with the Universal and proper sized Noe plug and prime (if the universal will work to align the primer pocket)
3: Charge with powder measure over the short or long charging die
4: Seat a bullet
5: Taper crimp.

or

0: On the APP deprime then tumble then prime on a bench or hand primer
1: Size primed brass (depriming rod removed)
2: Expand and Charge with PTX
3: Bullet Feeder
4: Seat
5: Crimp

[jetinteriorguy]

Before I retired my Loadmaster this is my final setup. I deprime off the press, wet tumble brass, then prime off the press. So in the first station I size without the decapping rod, station two expand and charge the case, station three powder check die, station four seat bullet, and station five crimp bullet. I know depriming and priming off the press seems to add work, but IME it eliminates any problems from the presses priming system and I just prime brass while watching tv anyway. Doing it this way allows the use of a powder check die which I prefer to using a station just for priming. One last thing I’d like to mention, all of this is loading pistol ammo, I’d never load rifle ammo on a Loadmaster. After so much frustration with the Loadmaster it now resides in a box in my closet and I went back to just using the Lee Classic Turret for simplicity and dependability. I’ve just recently added a Dillon 550B, it works pretty good but I really need to get used to the rhythm yet.

[Brassmonkey]

I paid for all the stations I'm gonna use all the stations!

Lol sorry couldn't help myself. I don't currently deprime 9mm before wet cleaning but one day I hope too, I just don't like the crud it leaves on the Dillon. Once in a while I get a ringer.

I've only been reloading for 3 years low volume, so I'm still tuning my process for me and results that satisfy me.

[Stopsign32v]

On most presses you have two ways to expand pistol cases....either an expander die, or a PTX (powder-thru expander) The PTX idea came later when people wanted to consolidate more functions on less stations.....mainly to allow crimping to be a separate function..... Lyman created M-dies later too, to create square cavities 1/16" deep so bullets could be dropped straight and true, without the tendency for a bullet to tilt on the otherwise typical flare or bevel.

Lee Universal expander is not made to drop powder through....it just expands necks, coming with several sizes of plugs, but they only flare. Noe company even makes an "M" style plug in any diameter you need for Lee's universal.....which is what I would prefer. But what I don't know is the answer to your question: if Lee makes a powder die where the p.m. can drop powder directly without expanding, or if they have to have a PTX under it. Here's the two products Lee Universal on the Left, NOE plug on the right. (Noe sells both):


Notice the 1/16" ledge on the Noe rather than a angle as on the Lee plugs.
Noe link: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod...ory/expanders/

Awe! Now I know.....Lee does make powder thru dies that don't expand necks....a long one and a short one. Here's a link to the short one:

https://leeprecision.com/short-charging-die.html

Just place the powder measure on top.....

So then in a nut shell:

0: Deprime brass on the APP and wet tumble
1: Size deprimed brass (no priming rod)
2: Expand with the Universal and proper sized Noe plug and prime (if the universal will work to align the primer pocket)
3: Charge with powder measure over the short or long charging die
4: Seat a bullet
5: Taper crimp.

or

0: On the APP deprime then tumble then prime on a bench or hand primer
1: Size primed brass (depriming rod removed)
2: Expand and Charge with PTX
3: Bullet Feeder
4: Seat
5: Crimp

Now that is some good thinking! I didn't know about the NOE inserts or the Lee univeral powder dies. I think I'm going to try the first idea you have.

[dverna]

GWS,

I want to thank you for the informative posts on the Loadmaster press. Very educational.

I doubt I will ever own one, but your posts demonstrated why what is "normal" for most presses does not apply to every press. It makes me wonder how many people trashed the LoadMaster and did not read the instructions...thinking it works the same as every other press. Not many frugal people, who are the target market for Lee, will have a spare die to aid in primer operation.

Priming is always the fly in the ointment when it comes to progressives and Lee has a bad (maybe well earned?) reputation for issues. The most reliable priming system I have ever used was on the Star reloaders. Not one bit of plastic "crap" to fail.

Anyway, good write up and I learned from it.

[GWS]

GWS,

I want to thank you for the informative posts on the Loadmaster press. Very educational.

I doubt I will ever own one, but your posts demonstrated why what is "normal" for most presses does not apply to every press. It makes me wonder how many people trashed the LoadMaster and did not read the instructions...thinking it works the same as every other press. Not many frugal people, who are the target market for Lee, will have a spare die to aid in primer operation.

Priming is always the fly in the ointment when it comes to progressives and Lee has a bad (maybe well earned?) reputation for issues. The most reliable priming system I have ever used was on the Star reloaders. Not one bit of plastic "crap" to fail.

Anyway, good write up and I learned from it.

You are welcome...I try to help out when I can. But, I too learned from last night's research on it. I don't own any Lee's except for the APP (which I love), an original Target Lee Loader, and a few Lee hand primers over the years. However I remember a video done by jmorris on the Loadmaster......he wanted to see if he could make the Load Master work after hearing several naysayers tear it down. Not only did he succeed, but he ran it faster than I've seen any progressive go. Maybe he will see this thread and post it here for the O.P. to enjoy.

If I've learned anything about reloading, I've learned that you can make things work best by following directions......which is not the first step for many of us, including me.

For example, I bought the swager tool for the APP when it first came out, and my immediate experience was, "this stupid thing won't swage reliably period.".....then I studied the directions with a fine tooth comb, and tried it again......worked well. In fact my RCBS bench swager now sits on a shelf. Not that it doesn't work......it's just not even close to as fast as one with a case feeder!!!. In fact, a case feeder on a single station press, which only Lee has given us, is revolutionary. In ten years every single station press will have one. We can learn a few things from Lee. Always best to keep our minds open.

And don't write off plastic parts.....since I've been making things on a 3d printer, I learned a few more things. Plastic is crap, where aluminum or steel is needed. Aluminum is crap, where steel is needed. But some things do just fine with plastic where wear is near non-existent. Like these 3d printed bullet feeder dies for example:


and they cost just a dollar or two in plastic...plus the two #3 ball bearings and the springs you see in the picture. And they work better than Hornady or RCBS ones and just as good as DAA's. Same can be said for bullet and case collators.

[Stopsign32v]

That will probably be the next thing I do after getting this press to run good. A nice bullet feeder setup.

[243winxb]

I would not oven dry.

[Stopsign32v]

I would not oven dry.

Why?

[guzma393]

Pretty late to the ball game with this post, but I figured to provide input based on experience:

- I personally don't find it to be a requirement to deprime before wet tumbling, but there are definite pro's to doing so; helps the brass dry faster, can inspect primer flash hole, fully take advantage of SS steel pin wet tumbling, etc. Personally, I don't normally run SS pins when I wet tumble, but when I do, it is applicable to decapped cases to take advantage of SS pins being able to clean the primer pockets.

- I actually keep the first hole on my lee loadmaster un-used. Too many mis-aligned case mishaps when doing long, narrow cases >223 length, which can be a problem for powder charge/resizing/decap operations. It could just be my loadmaster, but lee's "universal" take on their shellplates means looser tolerances, resulting in mis-aligned cases on the first station. I am also not a big fan of the primer system, so I removed it and de-prime on the second station and size on the third station.

- Cooking the brass as 250 degrees is fine as long as you know it's actually outputting heat that will not "overcook" your brass. I've also noticed that heating brass to dry them slightly tarnishes them, so i opted to just fan/air-dry instead to preserve the luster of the brass.

[243winxb]

My brass came out of the oven looking like case hardening on some receivers. Can't be good? Or is it?

The sun will dry them this time of year. In winter brass sits over the boiler for a day. Primers in. Water shaken out of each case. More so bottle neck brass, 223,243....

[megasupermagnum]

Oven drying is fine if you use a little foresight. The lowest my oven goes is 170. I preheat, put in the brass, and turn the oven off. Brass never gets over 170, probably less, and is fully dry in maybe 30 minutes. Drying in the sun likely gets them just as hot, but you need to rotate them usually. They won't fully dry if you just set them out there unless you leave it out there for hours. Generally I just set them near a window and leave them for a few days.

[oley55]

Oven drying is fine if you use a little foresight. The lowest my oven goes is 170. I preheat, put in the brass, and turn the oven off. Brass never gets over 170, probably less, and is fully dry in maybe 30 minutes. Drying in the sun likely gets them just as hot, but you need to rotate them usually. They won't fully dry if you just set them out there unless you leave it out there for hours. Generally I just set them near a window and leave them for a few days.

weak North Dakota sun will do that I guess. Mine get spread out on a dark colored bath towel in the sun and they will be bone dry in 45 minutes. I do swish them back and forth in a heavy towel to shake loose clinging water before setting them out to dry on a different dry towel. The hood of my truck works perfectly for that. I deprime before cleaning or drying though.

I spent a couple years in the South Carolina lowlands and their sun is hotter than Florida sun IMO. Or so it felt.

[jetinteriorguy]

Oven drying is fine if you use a little foresight. The lowest my oven goes is 170. I preheat, put in the brass, and turn the oven off. Brass never gets over 170, probably less, and is fully dry in maybe 30 minutes. Drying in the sun likely gets them just as hot, but you need to rotate them usually. They won't fully dry if you just set them out there unless you leave it out there for hours. Generally I just set them near a window and leave them for a few days.

This is how I do it as well, except I leave the oven on for 30 minutes. I follow with an hour in the tumbler with crushed walnut and a shot of Nufinish. This gives me a nice long lasting shine.

[gwpercle]

I would not wet tumble without removing the primers. If you store your brass you will have "ringers" when you remove the primers. The face of the primer will be removed and the primer walls will stay in the pocket.

I'd set up the APP with a universal deprimer.

Moisture causes the primer walls to corrode slightly and grip the pocket ... the face punches through and leaves the ring-o-brass in the pocket .
Deprime before wet tumbling ... having the primer out helps with complete case drying ...
better air circulation !
Gary

[BLAHUT]

I deprime brass do not dry well if wet tumble before depriming just saying ??

[deces]

Wet tumbling is great, you never have to worry about accumulating lead dust around your domicile when cleaning brass. Depriming with a Lee APP first, has made case preparation really easy for me. I'm thinking about trying Lee power quick trim on the APP next time.