Crosman .22 cal. 14.3 gr Premier HP Study

[BLAHUT]

Crossman are cheap pellets> i am supprised their is that small a weight diference you want accurcey buy olpimic grade pellets and test all sizes and weights to see what your gun likes??? What kind of gun are you shooting the pellets in?? It may be beyond your guns capability to shoot any better?? When you get into an olpimic grade air gun and are talking thousands of dollars for a gun> you get what you pay for>>> an $800.00 dollar match gun is going to shoot better than a $300.oo dollar air gun>>> a $7000.00 airgun is going to have one hole cpabilitys<<<

[BLAHUT]

Try testing at 10 metters ( 33' ) indoors out of a solid rest by size by weight by lot number
you may find your answer ??

[bryan scott]

I didn't answer your question about group size difference, im looking for target pictures from when i was doing this,i have them saved on the computer ,, just have to find them. and i cant find a direct comparison between roll sorted and not, but i have hundreds of pics of targets, i can post if you wish,, I started using crossman hp because they are less expensive, buy at wally world when buying groceries, I bought pretty much every .22 cal pellet pyramid air had when i bought my condor, i wanted to know what the gun liked,, coming from shooting springers you tailor the pellet to the gun, i thought that is what the PCP was going to want,, well you tailor the velocity to the pellet, for the most part, i've found most all pellets that i have can be made to shoot good at the velocity that the pellet wants, most anyway... The air force condor is very adjustable, i can shoot 32 g, pellets at 1100 fps, or turn back and tune it for indoor 10m. 14 grain target wadcutters at 550 fps.

anyway i was shooting long shot strings thru the chronograph on targets at 37 yards and 50 yards. learning how to tune the rifle and when you go thru 1000's of pellets it feel s way better with crossman hp than with jsb pellet's.

jsb 's have to be ordered online, and are 3 times as expensive, yes jsb's are better, {{but }} i was intrigued by my findings of small groups forming separate from each other with the crossmans , and jsp also, for that matter,, so i researched it and couldn't find anything really, but did find roll sorting,, which quickly separates pellets,, I'm doing all this with an Air Force Condor,, its single shot, so you feel each pellet go into chamber,, some are tighter some are looser fit,, same as with a springer really, but with much greater accuracy potential with the PCP , if i was trying for a best group and a pellet felt different going into the chamber i would fire that pellet at sighter target and more than likely it would be out of the group that i was firing. so this is how i have so much data on the crossman hp.

If you roll sort the crossman hp, it will shoot with the jsb, if you roll sort the jsb ,, they will shoot tighter groups. I've shot almost as tight 5 shot groups with pulling crossman hp out of the tin,{no roll sorting} all i can say is you just happen to pull 5 pellets out of the tin that would have rolled to the same position, when you just pull them out of the tin , you will get pellets that just shoot to a different point of aim,, this is being very critical, (and if you are not shooting 1'' or under at say 50 yards you may not see any difference doing this at all. )

So what my targets have told me is if i sit and keep shooting crossman hp pellet's into groups , un roll sorted,10 shots or more , you will get a , 3 pellets in 1/8'' to 1/4'' ,,,5 shots in 3/8'' , and several pellets out of that tight group making the group 1/2'' to 3/4'' for example. were the roll sorted pellets for the most part will eliminate the pellet's going out of the tighter group.
here is an early target of a shot string with un sorted pellets. https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds
20 shots un sorted https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...=278&crop=fill

here is an example of a sorted crossman hp group 10 shot 50 yard https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...=278&crop=fill

sorted crossman hp 5 or 10 shot 50 yards , cant remember and didn't write it down , looks like 10 shot
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...=278&crop=fill

more sorted crossman hp target examples 50 yard
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...=278&crop=fill
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...=278&crop=fill
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...=278&crop=fill

bottom right 50 yard 10 shot group exzampl , and various groups.. this target i had bugs crawling around on the target and was shooting at them. scored two i think ...
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds

Any way as i said before its an interesting project or at least it was for me..i shot allot of pellet's betwwen 2009 and 2011 or so because i bought a bran new Air force condor in 2009,My first PCP air rifle.. i had allot of fun and misery , learning how to tune the rifle, man you can go thru allot of pellets when there's no pumping,,, LOL

[chutesnreloads]

Hmmmm, that unsorted 20 shot group sure looks familiar.

[bryan scott]

Hmmmm, that unsorted 20 shot group sure looks familiar.

It is,, same

its the first 20 shots of a 38 shot string, i was testing group variation from a full fill on my tank,

[dverna]

Thanks for the data Bryan. I will be trying roll sorting. Lot's going on right now but it will get done. I just had my 74 cu ft tank topped up last week so I have plenty of air...LOL. Now to hope for a day without gusty winds.

[Multigunner]

Most of my shooting is with .22 T38 CO2 revolvers so I use wadcutters with these, but I have found the Crosman hollow point to be very accurate in my customised 1322 rifle with 22 inch barrel and custom Aluminum alloy receiver with hollow extended probe bolt.
For .177 guns the Beeman coated wadcutter works better than any other pellet.
My S&W 78g .22 with MAC 1 hotvalve and stronger mainspring salvaged from an airsoft gun works best with the heavier Ruger pellets though it handles the Crosman hollowpoint very well. With the hotvalve I only get 24 shots per capsule but velocity is great at near 470 FPS with the 14.3 grain and near 450 with the Ruger 17.8 grain. Thats on the lowest setting of the adjustable striker spring, haven't tried increasing the spring pressure.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have "standardized" on this pellet because it is inexpensive ($6.24/500 on sale) and reasonably accurate in both my PCP rifles.

Today I weight sorted 200 pellets and found:

12 pellets weighed 14.2 gr
95 pellets weighed 14.3 gr
80 pellets weighed 14.4 gr
13 pellets weighed 14.5 gr

Average weight came to 14.347 gr
SD came to .071
ES was .3 gr

I will be firing test groups to evaluate if weight sorting will enhance accuracy.

In previous testing, it has been frustrating to have 8-9 shots into a ragged hole and get one or two fliers that were not caused by a pulled shot. These little buggers are very sensitive to wind so that could be my issue. Not sure how much a 2% ES in weight adds to fliers but this should address it. To put it in perspective, a 2% ES on a 150 gr bullet would be +/- 1.5 grains.

SNIP>>>

Thank you (as always ) for posting this valuable info. From one of your posts a while back I jumped on the bandwagon, as they say, and placed a huge order for these from Amazon as you had suggested. (Another thank you!) For good or for bad, however, I have not yet opened these tins nor (obviously) shot any of them. But -- this info is good to know!

SNIP>>>

Like George, I too jumped on the bandwagon and bought out two of the local Walmarts when they had the $6.24 closeout price.

Don, I will also say thank you for the testing and starting this thread.

I really only need minute of squirrel and a lifetime supply to pass on to my Daughter and SIL, along with a couple RWS rifles.

[bryan scott]

Like George, I too jumped on the bandwagon and bought out two of the local Walmarts when they had the $6.24 closeout price.

Don, I will also say thank you for the testing and starting this thread.

I really only need minute of squirrel and a lifetime supply to pass on to my Daughter and SIL, along with a couple RWS rifles.

That's normal price , i've shot just about all popular pellets, and i've shot more of those than any other.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

That's normal price , i've shot just about all popular pellets, and i've shot more of those than any other.

I see that you are correct.
I recall when I bought them a year ago, that Walmart's regular price was higher?

[BLAHUT]

I have sorted by weight, diameter, use the shirt uniformer, diameter uniformer, added lube, no added lube, all of the for mentioned, best groups by weight, skirt uninformatively and diameter. all testing done indoors at 10 meters. in a solid rest, 10 shot groups. no added lube, other than what came on pellets, gun will tell you what it likes. then up to you to feed it what it likes? cheap pellets up to and including top line competition pellets.
this is for Exstream accuracy, for competition. on at 10 meters will put you pretty close to dead on at 25 yds? depending on gun?

[dverna]

BLAHUNT, do you have any data that tells us what parameter is most important to achieving accuracy once you have found a pellet the gun "likes"?

I am a "numbers guy". But I am also a lazy realist. If spending 2 hours to "improve" 500 pellets yields a 20% reduction in group size it is not worth the effort for me. I would spend 2 hours to get a 50% reduction in group size for "bragging rights", or if I were to mostly hunt at 50 yards.

By adding about 25 drops of Ballistol per tin of 500, my testing (30 groups) shows about .5" groups for 10 shots at 25 yards with the 14.3 gr. CPHP. The same pellet/lube is averaging .75" for 5 shot groups at 50 yards (30 groups). Squirrels and chipmunks at 25 yards are toast and should be decimated at 50 yards. Good enough.

With Ballistol, the 50 yard improvement in groups is only about 10%, but it is quick and easy to do and should increase the number of rounds between barrel cleanings. That makes it worthwhile for me.

There is a paucity of data regarding the benefits of pellet cleaning/lubing/sorting/uniforming. Any data you share will be appreciated.

[Larry Gibson]

The Crosman HP is also my "plinking" pellet for use in my RWS M54. As you've found, weight sorting really has little effect on the average accuracy. Thus I also do not weight sort them but simply shoot them out of the tin.

However, extensive testing out to 100 yards (I had access to an indoor facility for such) along with competition in some field target matches proved beyond a doubt that weight sort Crosman Premier 14.3 gr pellets definitely improved accuracy. I've stocked up on a lot of both and use the HPs just for casual shooting to which they actually suffice nicely.

[Tripplebeards]

When I get fliers with mine it’s because the darn thing is soooo hold sensitive. Don’t think I’d ever shoot good enough with my Walther talon to find out it’s going to shoot better with all the same weights. My pellets are always deformed and my eyes can’t see them. My guess the deformation will kill accuracy way more than the weights being off. If my terminator pellets hits close it will blow big holes in and out of nuisance squirrels. Wicked pellets! Sound like loud snap caps when I hit skulls.

[elmacgyver0]

I have a lot of different types of pellets, but I shoot mostly the cheapest I can find.
I don't think I'm a good enough shot for it to make that much difference.
Sometimes being mediocre has advantages.

[Geezerhood]

I did a similar weight sorting test with the Crosman CPHPs and could not see any difference in accuracy across the 14.2 to 14.5 grain range, though the ones that dropped below 14.2 did produce some flyers. Fortunately there were less than 2% in that weight range per 500 round tin. I won't be weight sorting, but if I end up shooting in matches, I will see if head / skirt sizing / sorting will improve my groups. Though it sure seems tedious when I can shoot out of the tin JSB Jumbo Heavy out of my 22 Factor RC for matches and get one some very small 10 shot groups at 20 yards, unsorted.

I did find it important to "sieve" the lead chips out of each tin as there were small chunks of lead stuck in the bottom cavity of the pellets, and to inspect the skirt as I loaded into the magazine. I also noticed a significant reduction in groups when single loading vs. magazine loading. The Factor increase in group size wasn't as pronounced as my Crosman Marauder / Prod pistol which would almost always at least triple the group size when shot through the magazine, sometimes 10x larger! The heads of the pellets were literally being shaved off at the bottom when feeding through the magazines. I would like to try a CARM mag if they make one for the Prod, to see if that makes an improvement.