This thing will kick

[hard88cast]

It doesn't kick that bad, I have a 50-100 I load 530gr linebaugh to 1700,, and 450 linebaugh to 1960. Going to take the 530 to 1850 and see what that feels like.
I can shoot these loads off the bench, sighting in, 20 at a time sitting. Standing is easy to shoot.
This rifle being 4" shorter barrel will add a little jarring for sure but not as bad as it sounds.
12gauge is great no doubt, but nothing penetrates like a 450-530gr hard cast boolit.
My 3.5 12 gauge honker loads kicks way worse. In fact I had to go to 3" 12ga loads, couldn't take that 3.5" hammering.

[John Taylor]

I built myself one on a 71 action with a 30 inch barrel and mag tube but I have not had a chance to take it out and shoot it. Hopefully the long barrel will tame the recoil down a bit. When I was young the recoil wasn't so bad but now it seems a 45-70 bothers me. My 300 Win. mag weighs 17 pounds and with the brake there isn't much recoil but it's only good as a bench gun. Most of the other guns are going smaller caliber, my 45-70 is now a
38-55. My cadet is in 32 S&W.

[hard88cast]

John, rifle really looks nice. Cant wait to get it home and stored in its spot on my jeep rack. Im really glad I spent so much time trying to figure out the forearm length compared to the 18" barrel. I think it came out perfect, very well proportioned, you did a great job cutting it down. And the silly saddle ring, well, Im glad I had you put it on, serves no purpose for me, just always wanted one..
I forgot to send you a screw in swivel for the stock, but I guess I can handle that since I am sanding down the stock for a little more "cheek clearance" and refinishing it to match the forearm. Cant wait to see the front barrel band you made.

[John Taylor]

John, rifle really looks nice. Cant wait to get it home and stored in its spot on my jeep rack. Im really glad I spent so much time trying to figure out the forearm length compared to the 18" barrel. I think it came out perfect, very well proportioned, you did a great job cutting it down. And the silly saddle ring, well, Im glad I had you put it on, serves no purpose for me, just always wanted one..
I forgot to send you a screw in swivel for the stock, but I guess I can handle that since I am sanding down the stock for a little more "cheek clearance" and refinishing it to match the forearm. Cant wait to see the front barrel band you made.

The butt stock already has a stud for the removable sling swivel.

[Char-Gar]

Detached retina is a strong possibility.

[missionary5155]

We shoot our 50 Alaskan with a 525 gr FN at 1850 fps and have survived at least 200 of those with eyes still working well. Cross sticks are or friends. WE do soot far more 400 gr FN at 1850 fps as te last Mastadon in east ILL-nois probably was eaten about 1600.
But if there ever is an old bull or Datsun that needs stopped we are ready.

[JoeJames]

Detached retina is a strong possibility.

Yes, I was fixing to mention that. Years ago I worked up some tolerably hot loads for my 1895 Marlin - no recoil pad a'tall, then later on had my eyes checked looking at lasik surgery - Dr. discovered my retina in my right eye had detached and then healed and scarred over on the edges - so eye surgery - cauterization etc, then later cataract surgery and lens replacement - so whooe! I don't need glasses anymore.

[Rapier]

Been there done that, had my eyes welded also. Neat stuff, that.

[hard88cast]

First field test yesterday, went out to the range in the heat of the day, about 4pm, 88deg, uncomfortable for us montana boys but had a little time.
No chrono or targets just aiming down range and firing at the gong to see how this thing handles.
10 rounds in about 20 minutes. 40 gr to 48gr 5744, a few 450 gr but mainly 530gr flat nose hard cast gas check. Half off the bench and the other half standing.

This thing ROARS, and a healthy kick, like shooting a 3 1/2" 12 gauge heavy goose load , which is a little uncomfortable for sure.
That African big bore butt pad really helps and also had john shorten my length of pull 3/4" and that really helped also.
Shooting off the bench was easy and the squeeze was good, standing i need some practice with that. We stiffened the trigger spring a bit and will take some getting use to.

My loads that I chroned on my 22" barrel rifle were all done during fairly cool weather, teens and 20s-F. so easy guess in this heat and with a 4" shorter barrel probably fairly close to the same specs.

Rifle is sweet and at 18" round barrel weighs in at 7lbs-7oz empty, 12oz lighter then my 22" 50 which is 8lb-3oz..

This src is really a sweet handler, i dont do any shooting in the heat of the summer, so this fall and winter I will get it sighted in and see what the rifle will do.

The wife looked at the rifle and said thats really a nice size, can i shoot it, i told her "you dont want to be on either end of this rifle".

[John Taylor]

First field test yesterday, went out to the range in the heat of the day, about 4pm, 88deg, uncomfortable for us montana boys but had a little time.
No chrono or targets just aiming down range and firing at the gong to see how this thing handles.
10 rounds in about 20 minutes. 40 gr to 48gr 5744, a few 450 gr but mainly 530gr flat nose hard cast gas check. Half off the bench and the other half standing.

This thing ROARS, and a healthy kick, like shooting a 3 1/2" 12 gauge heavy goose load , which is a little uncomfortable for sure.
That African big bore butt pad really helps and also had john shorten my length of pull 3/4" and that really helped also.
Shooting off the bench was easy and the squeeze was good, standing i need some practice with that. We stiffened the trigger spring a bit and will take some getting use to.

My loads that I chroned on my 22" barrel rifle were all done during fairly cool weather, teens and 20s-F. so easy guess in this heat and with a 4" shorter barrel probably fairly close to the same specs.

Rifle is sweet and at 18" round barrel weighs in at 7lbs-7oz empty, 12oz lighter then my 22" 50 which is 8lb-3oz..

This src is really a sweet handler, i dont do any shooting in the heat of the summer, so this fall and winter I will get it sighted in and see what the rifle will do.

The wife looked at the rifle and said thats really a nice size, can i shoot it, i told her "you dont want to be on either end of this rifle".

Make up some plinking loads for the wife and let her try it. Make sure you mark them as plinking loads, don't want to have one in the gun when a bear is coming and also don't want the wife to fire a full power load. Somewhere around 12 grains of Unique should work fine.

[hard88cast]

That's really interesting john, 12 grains of unique. Would assume some kind of filler to be used? I will have to check into that, thanks for the tip.

[John Taylor]

That's really interesting john, 12 grains of unique. Would assume some kind of filler to be used? I will have to check into that, thanks for the tip.

I have never used filler in 45-70 cases or 38-55 cases with Unique. Cast bullet loading manual recommends Dacron wad over powder, 5/8" square by 1/4" thick. Might help with accuracy but I have not used it. I don't have a load listing for the 50-100 but the 50-140 shows starting load of 16 grains of Unique with a 422 grain bullet. Max load for the 50-90 is 19 grains with a 498 bullet.
I have heard stories of using a card over powder causing a ring in the chamber, that's why I never used anything. The Dacron should not cause a problem. Light loads of a slow burning rifle powder can cause problems. My brother blew up a trapdoor with a light load of reloader 7. This is called detonation when there is too much air space and slow burning powder.

[softpoint]

Some of my friends here around the ranch wanted to "accustom" themselves to heavy recoil. So I had one of them find a NEF single shot, 12 gauge 3.5 inch magnum shot gun. Yes, they made them in 10 gauge, but those are MUCH heavier. I hunted down some 2 1/2 ounce "turkey" lead shot loads for it. Have the shooter shoot it off a rest. I stood behind them and loaded the gun for them. Or didn't load it. When they squeezed it off without a shell in it, some of the flinches were downright embarrassing. They became determined to not flinch like that again. They were soon able to tolerate the frisky little 12 gauge without flinching.

[Paul105]

Anything can be loaded down to tolerable levels, I think. Maybe 12 grains of Unique?
Rick

I had a 45-70 26" Marlin 1895 Cowboy. Used to shoot gophers with 12.5gr Unique under a 300gr laser cast. Comfortable, easy shooting load. Had a lot of fun and moved a lot of dirt around.

Paul

[hard88cast]

Single shot 3.5"12 gauge with heavy loads would be brutal.

Really looking forward to see if I can find some unique powder and try this out.
I did notice quite the difference between 40gr and 48gr of 5744,
And a light load would really help in getting use to the new trigger.

[indian joe]

Single shot 3.5"12 gauge with heavy loads would be brutal.

Really looking forward to see if I can find some unique powder and try this out.
I did notice quite the difference between 40gr and 48gr of 5744,
And a light load would really help in getting use to the new trigger.

theres a heck of a lot of psychology and perception stuff mixed up in FELT recoil - noise (muzzle blast) is a biggie for me = is why I like long barrel guns - moreso than for the weight - pretty much anything with an 18 inch barrel will have my ears screaming in protest for hours after - (damage done a long time ago and another story altogether) - jack it out to 24-26 inches and its tolerable in all but the worst high intensity rounds. When I go bush I want to hear whats going on around me so I dont hunt with earphones. I dont shoot big stuff - mid level loads in 45/70 is about it - most here will go "ho hum" to that - blokes that shoot small calibre high intensity rounds will comment different .
Did a double discharge in a 12 gauge one time 2x 2/34 shells at once - had just bought a L C Smith gun from a neighbor - my first single selective trigger - moved the selector to see if it would then went out to pattern the gun on an old grain bin in the yard - had not shot a 12g for ages - it didnt hurt but rocked me back more than I expected - kinda surprised that I had got soft - then when I popped it open two emptys flew out ????? (about same as that goose gun I guess)

[Abert Rim]

Congrats to both John and hard88cast on a very interesting and useful project. Looking forward to more range reports.
And yes, 12 grains of Unique under the Lee 340-grain bullet is pure pleasure out of a .45-70 Marlin.

[John Taylor]

theres a heck of a lot of psychology and perception stuff mixed up in FELT recoil - noise (muzzle blast) is a biggie for me = is why I like long barrel guns - moreso than for the weight - pretty much anything with an 18 inch barrel will have my ears screaming in protest for hours after - (damage done a long time ago and another story altogether) - jack it out to 24-26 inches and its tolerable in all but the worst high intensity rounds. When I go bush I want to hear whats going on around me so I dont hunt with earphones. I dont shoot big stuff - mid level loads in 45/70 is about it - most here will go "ho hum" to that - blokes that shoot small calibre high intensity rounds will comment different .
Did a double discharge in a 12 gauge one time 2x 2/34 shells at once - had just bought a L C Smith gun from a neighbor - my first single selective trigger - moved the selector to see if it would then went out to pattern the gun on an old grain bin in the yard - had not shot a 12g for ages - it didnt hurt but rocked me back more than I expected - kinda surprised that I had got soft - then when I popped it open two emptys flew out ????? (about same as that goose gun I guess)

Several years back I built a double rifle on a Winchester model 21 for a customer in 416-500 NE. He wanted 24" barrels and I was trying to talk him into longer barrels because of the powder capacity of the cartridge. The barrels regulated at the get go and I had hearing protection and a lead sled. I fired four shots and had the shakes the rest of the day from the muzzle blast. The stock guy had put a recoil reducer in the stock but it didn't have much effect so he added another one. The owner fired one shot at the range and called the stock guy asking if he had put the requester recoil reducer in.

[indian joe]

Several years back I built a double rifle on a Winchester model 21 for a customer in 416-500 NE. He wanted 24" barrels and I was trying to talk him into longer barrels because of the powder capacity of the cartridge. The barrels regulated at the get go and I had hearing protection and a lead sled. I fired four shots and had the shakes the rest of the day from the muzzle blast. The stock guy had put a recoil reducer in the stock but it didn't have much effect so he added another one. The owner fired one shot at the range and called the stock guy asking if he had put the requester recoil reducer in.

adding more chaos to the confusion that 24 inch double gun (muzzle) is near the same distance from yr earhole as an 18 inch carbine - lever or bolt gun - you were giving him good advice - he proly (secretly) wished he took it.