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Thread: Lubing pellets with Ballistol

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by chutesnreloads View Post
    Very interesting report Don. I've read of the Crosman pellets leaving antimony in the bore enough to need a lot of shots to get accuracy
    when switching to a different pellet and I "seem" to be experiencing this. Wonder if the lube would help with this also?
    Years ago was able to go into work on week ends and shoot down the long aisles in the warehouse. I'm not as meticulous a tester
    but the lack of breeze should take a little more uncertainty from the equation.
    You could be right about issues with bore seasoning. I have seen some issues with needing 10-20 shot to "settle in" but it is either not consistent or I am not a good enough shot to decern it. I have switched pellets when testing different types and at times the first group is fantastic...go figure.

    I have had some high end pellets shoot like crap for 10 shots and gave up. Makes me wonder if I had put 50 downrange, they may have "settled in". But the issue becomes mute for most of us. We find a few pellets that shoot well and go with them.

    My guns like the JSB Exact 15.89 gr and the Air Arms 16.0. It was surprising as NSB has the same gun (except regulated), and his gun shoots the heavier pellets better. But it is what it is.

    I was either lucky, or cursed, to find the cheap Crosman's shot well enough for my needs (about .2" larger groups at 50 yards)...good enough for an old man who plinks. Lucky part, I can shoot for $6.24/tin of 500, and cursed that they are so damn light and more affected by wind. The heavier pellets will have 40-50% less drift at 25- 50 yards. BTW, an FYI, any small gains in accuracy are quickly negated when selecting a pellet to hunt with as ranges extend much past 25 yards. People getting into hunting need to weigh that reality...a heavy 2 MOA pellet will be a better hunting choice than a light 1 MOA pellet.

    A bit of thread drift but what the hell....

    I have had a lot of fun, leaned a lot, and will learn more as I 'dip my toes' in PCPs. I keep my 10/22 by door for taking out varmints because it is a better option and noise is of no concern where I live. NO WAY an air gun is better than a .22 LR for that job. Even a .25 cal pellet has less than 1/2 the energy of a .22LR and more wind drift. YMMV if you live where a "real" gun cannot be utilized.

    There is no need to shoot at 500+ yards to learn how to shoot in the wind. The Crosman 14.3's have a 10 mph wind drift of 24.7" at a MV of 950 fps. (check what a 'Long Range' rifle does at 500 yards...the pellet is more challenging). At 50 yards that pellet drifts 6.0", about the same at a big game hunting bullet at 300 yards.

    IMO, a person that wants to learn to shoot well would be wise to invest in a good PCP air gun.

    1. The platform is accurate. A poor shot is always your fault. (ie, not due to casting defect or erratic ES)
    2. It is inexpensive. You can invest in plenty of trigger time.
    3. You can shoot almost anywhere. No "range trips" with $4-5 gal gas or range fees/dues. Or ninja ********.
    4. Never a shortage of components or "scalper prices". (Purchased 30k pellets for less than $500 last year)
    5. No time wasted smelting, casting, inspecting, lubing, sizing, picking up cases, cleaning cases, reloading.

    I will never stop reloading but will be doing a lot less. It takes me about 3 1/2 hours to cast and lube 1000 pistol bullets...costs about $35 using my stock of commercial alloy and lube. (I know you guys get "free" lead...LOL). Using powder (4.5 gr) and primers from my inventory costs $40/1000. If I had to pay current prices, figure about $125. I can reload 1000 rounds in 90 minutes (Dillon 1050)...YMMV. My current cost comes to $75/k. If the "new normal" lasts, it will cost $160/k. Total time 5 hours with case cleaning done 'off the clock'. This is for pistol plinking bullets used also in carbines. For rifle loads, cost of powder will be doubled, or more.

    Cost for 1000 pellets and air....$15. Time invested....90 seconds on Amazon.

    When .22's went nuts during the previous shortage I sold most of them and shot .38's and 9mm. Many others on this forum did the same. When "THIS" happened, I sold most of my primers and switched gears again.

    Shooting is a lot more affordable than boating, or golf or cars. I will never complain about the cost of my hobby.

    BTW, this is a sales pitch. I want to see more people shooting, not fewer. Let's hit whoever is screwing us with the cost of components by NOT buying stuff we do not NEED. By that, I mean the only powder and primers we need are if you compete, to defend our home, and to hunt. You can maintain proficiency and have tons of trigger time without spending a lot of money and feeding the shortages. The more people that get into air gunning, the cheaper everything becomes for all of us. Powder and primers prices will drop. There is another upside. The air gun industry will develop and introduce better guns at lower cost. This is already happening. It is not BS. My DAR cost $300 and is damn close to my $1000 Daystate. My Crosman $375 1701P will outshoot any target .22.

    JUST DO IT!

    If becoming a good shooter is not important. If you want to support the current shortages. Keep on keeping on.

    BTW, I realize for many the joy of shooting requires boom, smoke and/or recoil. I am not denigrating those folks. I enjoy shooting "real guns'' too. It bothers me to see folks thinking about leaving the sport because of the current supply and price situation. If we can get more people shooting, and keep the shooters we have active, it will help us down the road.

    I have loved this sport for over 60 years. The only things I loved longer are my departed dad, mom and sister.
    Don Verna


  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Don, another good post/perspective on shooting and shooting with air guns. I shot competition for forty years and spent enough money on guns, ammo, entry fees, etc. to buy another house. Somewhere along the line I realized I could still be challenged by PCP air rifles and do it for a lot less money and time spent looking for components. There’s a challenge in every type of shooting discipline, even air guns. I quit hunting deer with bolt action rifles years ago because the challenge in making the shot just wasn’t there. I started shooting and hunting deer with single shot rifles, muzzle loaders, bows, and handguns. I enjoy the challenge of learning to shoot well more than I do the accomplishment of shooting a great group with monotonous regularity. I endorse your comments about promoting air gun shooting and pushing the costs of primers, powder, etc down by reducing the need which raises the price and availability. I still enjoy bench time with my single shot rifles and handguns, but I spend a lot more time now shooting and hunting with my air gun. So much so, that I’m probably going to add another one to the stable.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Well Don, it's your fault. My second PCP showed up on my porch yesterday. It's the Beeman 2027 pistol in 177. Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. I live where I can shoot anything I want on my property but the PCP guns have provided the accuracy I have wanted in an air without having to spend a ton of money.

  4. #24
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    I did a BOATLOAD of testing with 22 cal pellets in a Benjamin Marauder pistol, one that eventually had to go back to the bakery because of air leaks, they "fixed" it by replacing it, but the replacement grouped horribly so they replaced it yet again with a new one, and put in two tins of Benjamin PCP Discovery 14.3gr pellets.

    I had heard that barrels on these could be hit or miss, I think some barrels were made by Green Mountain, these are reported to shoot very well and others were made by who knows who. I think the guys at the factory knew this already and they chose me a very good shooter, musta gotten a GM barrel this time, and with those Benjamin PCP Discovery pellets, it outshot ALL of the groups in my previous strings of tests.

    Mine has the tport drilled to .143" and I didn't chrono it but it certainly became more lethal on squirrels so I know it picked up a good bit of velocity, as it also created a tad bit of felt recoil, and greatly diminished the shot capacity of a fully charged gas tube. I prefer it like it is, and those pellets are perfect for that barrel whatever make it is.

    Since moving a few years ago I have no invading squirrels here, I stuck a lifelike owl decoy over my tomatoes and they have vanished completely from this side of the street, so this fine piece of kit sits in a closet mostly but I enjoyed the talk of various lube which I would definitely try if I get back to shooting it again.

    In 4 years I did have two big brave ones cross the road and get into close proximity to the garden, and it dispatched them both rather quickly with one head shot each. That was 2 years ago I think.

    Thanks for the great discussion!
    Last edited by DougGuy; 08-06-2022 at 03:30 PM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs 6 30min chamfer reamed? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    I did a BOATLOAD of testing with 22 cal pellets in a Benjamin Marauder pistol, one that eventually had to go back to the bakery because of air leaks, they "fixed" it by replacing it, but the replacement grouped horribly so they replaced it yet again with a new one, and put in two tins of Benjamin PCP Discovery 14.3gr pellets.

    I had heard that barrels on these could be hit or miss, I think some barrels were made by Green Mountain, these are reported to shoot very well and others were made by who knows who. I think the guys at the factory knew this already and they chose me a very good shooter, musta gotten a GM barrel this time, and with those Benjamin PCP Discovery pellets, it outshot ALL of the groups in my previous strings of tests.

    Mine has the tport drilled to .143" and I didn't chrono it but it certainly became more lethal on squirrels so I know it picked up a good bit of velocity, as it also created a tad bit of felt recoil, and greatly diminished the shot capacity of a fully charged gas tube. I prefer it like it is, and those pellets are perfect for that barrel whatever make it is.

    Since moving a few years ago I have no invading squirrels here, I stuck a lifelike owl decoy over my tomatoes and they have vanished completely from this side of the street, so this fine piece of kit sits in a closet mostly but I enjoyed the talk of various lube which I would definitely try if I get back to shooting it again.

    In 4 years I did have two big brave ones cross the road and get into close proximity to the garden, and it dispatched them both rather quickly with one head shot each. That was 2 years ago I think.

    Thanks for the great discussion!
    Without (hopefully) not straying this thread , one of my first PCP's was a Marauder .22 pistol. I shimmed to firm stock -- a requisite! -- and bought that nifty overpriced piece of plastic with holes in that inserts into stock to store magazines. Sooo in love with this airgun, I couldn't wait to buy its sister -- the Woods Walker version. The latter has never ever shot as well as the plain-Jane one... you may have come up with a possible answer to this mystery *IF*, say, the 'Walker came with an inferior made barrel (???).

    geo

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Well Don, it's your fault. My second PCP showed up on my porch yesterday. It's the Beeman 2027 pistol in 177. Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. I live where I can shoot anything I want on my property but the PCP guns have provided the accuracy I have wanted in an air without having to spend a ton of money.
    Good the hear you are enjoying "The Dark Side". I now have four PCP's and a CO2 pistol.

    BTW, I blame NSB for pushing me further down the rabbit hole. But he did not have to do much pushing. He recommended the Daystate. It was more than I wanted to invest but I had sold a bunch of stuff so went for it. It was everything I could hope for after I stumbled for a bit. He helped me a lot.

    One thing about this site. There are people who have walked the walk and know their stuff. All of them share information and give great advice.
    Don Verna


  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    You could be right about issues with bore seasoning. I have seen some issues with needing 10-20 shot to "settle in" but it is either not consistent or I am not a good enough shot to decern it. I have switched pellets when testing different types and at times the first group is fantastic...go figure.

    I have had some high end pellets shoot like crap for 10 shots and gave up. Makes me wonder if I had put 50 downrange, they may have "settled in". But the issue becomes mute for most of us. We find a few pellets that shoot well and go with them.

    My guns like the JSB Exact 15.89 gr and the Air Arms 16.0. It was surprising as NSB has the same gun (except regulated), and his gun shoots the heavier pellets better. But it is what it is.

    I was either lucky, or cursed, to find the cheap Crosman's shot well enough for my needs (about .2" larger groups at 50 yards)...good enough for an old man who plinks. Lucky part, I can shoot for $6.24/tin of 500, and cursed that they are so damn light and more affected by wind. The heavier pellets will have 40-50% less drift at 25- 50 yards. BTW, an FYI, any small gains in accuracy are quickly negated when selecting a pellet to hunt with as ranges extend much past 25 yards. People getting into hunting need to weigh that reality...a heavy 2 MOA pellet will be a better hunting choice than a light 1 MOA pellet.

    A bit of thread drift but what the hell....

    I have had a lot of fun, leaned a lot, and will learn more as I 'dip my toes' in PCPs. I keep my 10/22 by door for taking out varmints because it is a better option and noise is of no concern where I live. NO WAY an air gun is better than a .22 LR for that job. Even a .25 cal pellet has less than 1/2 the energy of a .22LR and more wind drift. YMMV if you live where a "real" gun cannot be utilized.

    There is no need to shoot at 500+ yards to learn how to shoot in the wind. The Crosman 14.3's have a 10 mph wind drift of 24.7" at a MV of 950 fps. (check what a 'Long Range' rifle does at 500 yards...the pellet is more challenging). At 50 yards that pellet drifts 6.0", about the same at a big game hunting bullet at 300 yards.

    IMO, a person that wants to learn to shoot well would be wise to invest in a good PCP air gun.

    1. The platform is accurate. A poor shot is always your fault. (ie, not due to casting defect or erratic ES)
    2. It is inexpensive. You can invest in plenty of trigger time.
    3. You can shoot almost anywhere. No "range trips" with $4-5 gal gas or range fees/dues. Or ninja ********.
    4. Never a shortage of components or "scalper prices". (Purchased 30k pellets for less than $500 last year)
    5. No time wasted smelting, casting, inspecting, lubing, sizing, picking up cases, cleaning cases, reloading.

    I will never stop reloading but will be doing a lot less. It takes me about 3 1/2 hours to cast and lube 1000 pistol bullets...costs about $35 using my stock of commercial alloy and lube. (I know you guys get "free" lead...LOL). Using powder (4.5 gr) and primers from my inventory costs $40/1000. If I had to pay current prices, figure about $125. I can reload 1000 rounds in 90 minutes (Dillon 1050)...YMMV. My current cost comes to $75/k. If the "new normal" lasts, it will cost $160/k. Total time 5 hours with case cleaning done 'off the clock'. This is for pistol plinking bullets used also in carbines. For rifle loads, cost of powder will be doubled, or more.

    Cost for 1000 pellets and air....$15. Time invested....90 seconds on Amazon.

    When .22's went nuts during the previous shortage I sold most of them and shot .38's and 9mm. Many others on this forum did the same. When "THIS" happened, I sold most of my primers and switched gears again.

    Shooting is a lot more affordable than boating, or golf or cars. I will never complain about the cost of my hobby.

    BTW, this is a sales pitch. I want to see more people shooting, not fewer. Let's hit whoever is screwing us with the cost of components by NOT buying stuff we do not NEED. By that, I mean the only powder and primers we need are if you compete, to defend our home, and to hunt. You can maintain proficiency and have tons of trigger time without spending a lot of money and feeding the shortages. The more people that get into air gunning, the cheaper everything becomes for all of us. Powder and primers prices will drop. There is another upside. The air gun industry will develop and introduce better guns at lower cost. This is already happening. It is not BS. My DAR cost $300 and is damn close to my $1000 Daystate. My Crosman $375 1701P will outshoot any target .22.

    JUST DO IT!

    If becoming a good shooter is not important. If you want to support the current shortages. Keep on keeping on.

    BTW, I realize for many the joy of shooting requires boom, smoke and/or recoil. I am not denigrating those folks. I enjoy shooting "real guns'' too. It bothers me to see folks thinking about leaving the sport because of the current supply and price situation. If we can get more people shooting, and keep the shooters we have active, it will help us down the road.

    I have loved this sport for over 60 years. The only things I loved longer are my departed dad, mom and sister.
    Couldn't agree more. But I've enjoyed the air guns so much I never really considered the money saved. Can't shoot the powder burners at
    home but have access to land a very short drive away with none of the yahoos you meet at a range. Sometimes have to shoo the cattle out of my way but hey? So, yes, when I'm serious about bringing home meat or dispatching a varmint, the powder burner is what I grab.
    What has really kept me into the air power is the quietness, not needing ear muffs/plugs. It's less work, not walking so far setting up
    targets and such and the "danger area" behind where I shoot is greatly reduced. Even when I go out to the land, It's still the air gun that gets the most trigger time. I can shoot the PCP at home but I can increase distance to target as far as I dare out there

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I cannot comment on velocity.

    I have been told Ballistol will not diesel.
    Don: the Ballistol won't diesel in a PCP because when compressed air is released it cools. A Spring Powered Gun Compresses the air during firing so it will diesel.

    Back in the day,, Micky Thompson had a Dragster that used Compressed Air in tanks to feed the engine instead of a Super Charger. They were able to get High HP (8,000HP!) without any Super Destructive Pre Ignition Nock which is what destroys those engines. With the fuels they use and compressed air from the Super Chargers "Pinging" is inevitable due to the heat of the compressed air going in. (Thus they are built to take that) This was not the case with the Air released from the tanks on board as it was super cooled during the release. NHRA outlawed his car after the first few races as they were convinced he was running pure Oxygen and his engines weren't blowing up. Never mind that Nitro Methane contains it's own oxygen. It was purely Political as he wasn't spending as much money on Engines as everyone else, and it was "different!"

    PCP No diesel, Springer Diesel.

    Weihrauch made a rifle based on the HW 35 gun with an added on Ether Injector that delivered one drop of Ether behind the pellet after the barrel was closed. The velocity was purported to be in excess of 1200-1400 fps for the .22 cal. version and there was a Sonic Crack during firing. The device was called the "Barracuda," and they are worth a bunch $ now if you can find one.. They were purported to be hard on the Breech Seals. But velocity higher than .22 LR was a OK trade off.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  9. #29
    Boolit Bub
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    Im shooting a bigger airgun (Texan .457) but I also have found some improvement using Ballistol. I apply it by putting some on a rag inside of a plastic bag, then lightly lubing each bullet before shooting. I also do it to keep the barrel a bit cleaner.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Well Don, it's your fault. My second PCP showed up on my porch yesterday. It's the Beeman 2027 pistol in 177. Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. I live where I can shoot anything I want on my property but the PCP guns have provided the accuracy I have wanted in an air without having to spend a ton of money.
    I have one of those also, haven't had it long.
    I really like mine; I use a hand pump to pump it up, not too hard.
    I couldn't believe how inexpensive it was.
    It seems pretty accurate to me, of course minute of pop can is good for me.

  11. #31
    I have been using silicone oil when I do lube the pellets, but read over on AGN that the go to lube is Lemon Pledge?!

    Some of them spray it on the pellets, but most spray it on a cloth then roll the pellets on the cloth so no Pledge gets inside the hollow cavity either on the front or the back end of the pellet, mostly just on the rim of the skirt and the outer edge of the head. After coating, some roll them inside a dry cloth to remove the excess Pledge. I am going to give it a try.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check