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Thread: thought it would work 30-30 loads

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    thought it would work 30-30 loads

    Well I'm new to the group but have cast pistol bullets in the past. tried 30-30 with a Lee 309-170 mold and cast from mostly wheel weights. coated with hi-tek and they came out good. loaded some plinker loads with 10 gr. unique sized without checks and some sized with checks loaded with 24 gr. 3031. first few light loads shot OK but started to feel chambering issues. figured maybe neck not expanding with low pressure. Letting gasses back into the chamber. went to some 3031 loads and shot a lot better but more chambering problems. pretty hard to see bore late in the evening in a lever action- nearly new Canadian commemorative 94. at least hasn't been shot much and started out with a clean bore.now I have leading streaks to try and get out which may take some time and without diss-assembling pretty iffy to tell if I have the chamber clean. is it even worth the problems to use such loads? I have read of others having good results with these loads but I am having second thoughts about the coating

  2. #2
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    I haven't done exactly what you've done with the Unique and hi-tek, but it sounds like a combination of low pressure fouling and goo. I do shoot 170 gr. cast lead bullets with IMR 3031 with great results, no coating, with gas checks. Getting leading out of bores is never fun, so you'll have to answer your own question about is it worth it. My lead is just about straight wheel weights with a little tin.

    DG

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Welcomed aboard and welcome to problem solving central. Half the fun here is making it all better. When shooting moves toward perfection it's a great reward.

    A couple of points not covered in your post relate to what size you are making the bullet compared to the measurement of the bore. Powder coating adds to the total dimension and affects results. Try experimenting with bullets of different total diameters. .309, .310, .311, etc. Barrels can be pretty finicky about that. When the right size is found, shooting improves. Also, what lube are you using. Just as in sizing, some barrels are finicky about the preferred lube used. Right there you have a bunch of testing and combo's to try. Good luck.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



    atr's Avatar
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    also, try putting a decent crimp on the loaded round, sometimes that helps to build up the pressure before the bullet begins to travel.
    I have never had any leading problems using WW + sizing with lubrication. I do shoot the 170 gr cast somewhere around 1800 pfs.
    atr
    Death to every foe and traitor and hurrah, my boys, for freedom !

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    I had a sever leading problem with my free pistol> I use bore tec eliminator. wet mop. let sit for about 5 minutes. lead just fell out>

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Hard to believe you got leading with Hi-Tek. Most reports are that it does a good job, but I have no experience with it. Maybe not adhered well enough? Others will chime in.

    As for shooting cast in the .30/30 you have a good platform. .30/30 is an "easy" caliber...or so say most.

    I had pathetic results with a Marlin 336 and gave up after 3 sessions. I was too busy to dink around with it at the time. I used commercial cast bullets
    Don Verna


  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    coated with hi-tek
    Problem - change to PC.
    Edit: went to lunch. To continue, some have gotten results with hitek in rifle, I haven't. I did once with a very hard alloy. I was very careful in application, 2 coats. WD after last coat. Got to 2k fps in BO carbine. Experiments in 30/30 didn't work for me. Hitek in large batches for pistol is very good but I don't use it anymore as PC is just too reliable and simple. Still have a bunch of 9mm with hitek I haven't loaded, maybe some day.
    To get the leading out, try GC'd lubed (BLL will work) or coated. Or take bolt out and scrub with copper choreboy. Cured HiTek isn't dissolved with normal solvents.
    Last edited by popper; 08-04-2022 at 01:53 PM.
    Whatever!

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    Well I did get the bores clean with Hoppes on a brush wrapped with the chore boy type copper strands. I have donwe that in the past on a pistol barrel but had forgotten the trick. I am second guessing whether the hi-tek is worth it on 30 cal. I expect larger diameters have enough extra surface to help get the bullet spinning without stripping and I probably need to find some harder mix as well. maybe I can find some. I doubt there is any linotype stuff left. and I don't have a chronograph so I have no idea what kind of velocity 24 grains of 3031 produces. as far as diameter I have a plain LEE .308 sizer die and pushing the coated ones through it cause very little resistance unless seating copper gas checks. and they are hard to find anymore. and if you do they are 50 bucks plus shipping I guess.I was thinking about ways to save money but there's always a down side. I'm guessing the wheel weight mix shrinks quite a bit more than lead since the bullets tend to be a little small. but of sourse more lead would be softer and worse I expect. I have a good quantity of pyrodex as well as some American Pioneer powder that I could use as a compressed load and probably would give less pressure than the 3031 but I expect it would make as big a mess with fouling. though maybe I could get by not using the powder coat and try the liquid alox as a lube. I don't have one of the lubricisers that were so good to size and lube but as small as these are coming out without coating I boubt things would improve

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy 405grain's Avatar
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    Hold the phone! Your sizing to .308"? That may be one of the reasons that your getting leading. With cast bullets it's usually best to size about .001" over groove diameter. If the bullet is under sized hot, high pressure gas can blow past the bullet as it travels down the bore. This will vaporize lead off of the bullet, which will then condense on the bore. If this is going on, leading will build up pretty quickly. The best advise I can give is for you to slug your bore to find out what the internal dimensions are, then size your bullets .001" larger than that.

    Also, gas checks will not only help in preventing gas blow by, but 'almost always' cast bullets that are designed for gas checks will be more accurate with the check installed. Making your alloy harder to prevent leading is an old timers myth. What you need is an alloy that will seal the bore and prevent the gas cutting that causes leading. an alloy that's soft enough to obdurate and fit the barrel properly, but has the mechanical strength not to strip out on the rifling is what you want. Just a guess, but 24.0 grains of IMR-3031 with a 170 grain boolit in a 30-30 should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1700 fps. An alloy like wheel weights with either lubed or powder coated should work really well in this pressure/speed range. You could probably even increase the speed up into the 1800 fps range with this alloy. I think the problem that your having might be because your sizing your boolits too small.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    yep. sized to .308 is asking for problems.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    about 1600 fps. Even in a Winchester, 309 would be the smallest. Try PC and NOT sizing (adds about 2 thous). HiTek only adds about a thous. which doesn't get you big enough. Yea, have to cast more bullets. If that works, you can use emery paper & oil to enlarge the Lee sizer. I use a 170 PB with unique and it works fine. Should give you 1500 fps. So if you get the size right you can save the GCs for now, use on full power loads. WW alloy is fine.
    Whatever!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    The nice thing about lead is that you can oversize with some room for error. My 30-30 slugs at 0.308 so I have bullets sized to 0.309 and no leading-- but I have on occasion used lead bullets up to 0.311 and they also shot good with no leading. Don't be shy about making them a little oversize (at least 0.001).
    Hick: Iron sights!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    If your bullets are too small you will have leading. Try .310' or larger. If the throat will accept it you are good to go. Also, it's not usually velocity which causes leading, it's pressure. Your Unique load is probably producing more pressure than your 3031 load.
    Good Luck,
    Rick

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    Too small or too hard is always a problem.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    For most .30 cals I start with a .310, unless it just won't chamber, then maybe .309, the I go up from there. I usually use the largest boolit that chambers without neck interference AND/OR the boolit jamming into the rifling. Slower powders do usually give less leading than the faster ones at the same velocity. Slower acceleration with lower pressure treats the boolit better.

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    I can understand that, one problem seems to be they are already coming out about .308 from the mold. I think either the 309 mold is a little tight or like I said maybe the weight mix tends to shrink more, anyway I will cast some and coat without sizing- the hi-tek doesn't seem to add any significant amount of diameter anyway and see if that helps. as an alternative I may see if I can buy some of the style powder that is dry coated and baked. can you tell me if it adds more thickness and whether that's worth chasing? beyond that probably I would have to buy another mold and larger sizing die. this really is more of a fun test anyway. my shooting now days is mostly 22 sillouette and running target with occasional high power matches.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    I do not crimp cast bullets in a rifle, and I shoot sub .5” at 100. If you want to shoot for accuracy, a few rules of the road.

    The first thing I do is slug my barrel to get the actual groove diameter, never guess at it. I keep all of my barrel slugs in a container, marked for diameter. Then I use a well tried mould with a well established alloy.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
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  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master

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    With the magazine under the barrel you have to crimp, otherwise the recoil will push the boolit into the case and increase pressure. The only way around this is to load BP full case that the boolit sets on, not recommended in the 30-30. So yes, a good crimp is necessary.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Long ago I was given a carton of 500 Lazer Cast 170 gr FN bullets. At .307”- they leaded my 94 up quickly. I melted and recast the last 400 into Lee C309150F, sized .309” and tumble lubed.
    No more problem.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy 405grain's Avatar
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    panhandle: First things first. Go online and download a free copy of "From Ingot to Target" by Glen Fryxell. This is an excellent source of information about cast bullets, and will answer many of the questions that you'll want to ask as you progress. Second thing - It's been my experience that some powder coatings can add up to .002" to a cast bullets diameter. Two powders that I can recommend for a fairly thick coat are Signal Blue, sold by Smoke4320 in the "swappin & sellin" section of this site, and Ford Light Blue sold online by Eastwood. Even though a lot of us started out with harbor freight powder coat, don't waste your time on that. The first time I tried a real powder coating the can of harbor freight red went into the trash. Smoke4320 tests all of his powders to make sure that they work on cast bullets.

    As pointed out above, you'll have to apply a crimp to prevent having the bullets pushed back into the case during recoil while they're in a tubular magazine. When reloading with cast bullets you'll need to slightly bell the mouth of the case before trying to seat the bullet or the case mouth might shave lead from the sides of the bullet. (there are lots of tools for this: Lee expander die, lyman M die, etc.) I usually only bell the case mouth enough for half the gas check to enter the case mouth, and this is enough to seat without shaving any lead.. I've found that if I try to seat the bullet and crimp the case all in one operation (like with jacketed bullets) it shaves lead and powder coat from the driving bands on the bullet. This ruins accuracy and could cause leading. Because of this I do bullet seating and crimping as two separate operations. As you go along you'll have lots of questions, but that's OK because there's lots of helpful people on this website.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check