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Thread: What powder would be best for light weight 9mm loads out of PCC 10.5" barrel?

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    What powder would be best for light weight 9mm loads out of PCC 10.5" barrel?

    I'm wanting to work up to max velocity out of my 10.5 PCC. Which powders would you guys start off with for 90gr XTP bullets?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    Ben's Avatar
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    Do you have any loading manuals ?

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    Do you have any loading manuals ?
    Yes a few. But I was wondering outside of the box if anyone would suggest something. Power Pistol and Blue Dot are among the ones mentioned in my books, Power Pistol is number 49 on the burn chart and Blue Dot is 71 so that is a wide range of rate of burn. I was wondering is what about other powders since the barrel is longer than typical 9mm pistols. I have a lot of 2400 which is only 5 spots away from Blue Dot on the burn chart and also curious about LongShot.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy anothernewb's Avatar
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    it's all about the kind of performance you are aiming for.

    light bullets and fast powders go hand in hand. Any of the speedy powders in the bullseye/zip/clays/WST/titegroup area will work.

    Caveat - they are for efficiency and target velocities. you're not going to safely make top velocity loads with them. What you do get is a lot of rounds per pound of powder

    PP/2400/BD/LongShot are generally for heavier bullets and full power loads. If you're chasing max velocity - then you'll need to stick to the slower powders.

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by anothernewb View Post
    it's all about the kind of performance you are aiming for.

    light bullets and fast powders go hand in hand. Any of the speedy powders in the bullseye/zip/clays/WST/titegroup area will work.

    Caveat - they are for efficiency and target velocities. you're not going to safely make top velocity loads with them. What you do get is a lot of rounds per pound of powder

    PP/2400/BD/LongShot are generally for heavier bullets and full power loads. If you're chasing max velocity - then you'll need to stick to the slower powders.
    I'm wanting absolute max velocity in this setup. The gun is a Kalashnikov KP9 so I don't think pressure will be the issue I think since it is a blowback the issue will be keeping the bolt closed during the full burn cycle. Maybe too slow of a burn will have fireballs out of the ejection port.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy anothernewb's Avatar
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    go with the slower powders then. power pistol/longshot. maybe BE86 or HS6.

    though anything slow will likely leave some unburned powder. 231 might not be a terrible place to start. kinda in the middle.

    There was a PCC shootout awhile back and they found some of the faster powders actually got a better velocity due to the open bolt and burn efficiency. IIRC 231 was among the top.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I ran a Quickload table to see what powders produce best predicted velocities in a 10.5" gun with your desired bullet and a pressure of 32,000 psi. First I left the AOL at the default number that came up and the results did not make sense. I shortened it to 1.05". Note that this is NOT tested Load data, but a comparison to show which powders you should consider.

    With only a 100 fps spread for the top dozen or so loads shown, any of these powders is really "pretty good". Any of these velocities probably greatly exceed what this bullet is designed for.

    Code:
    Cartridge          : 9 mm Luger (SAAMI)
    Bullet             : .355, 115, Hornady FMJ/RN ENC 35557
    Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.050 inch = 26.67 mm
    Barrel Length      : 10.5 inch = 266.7 mm
    
    Matching Maximum Pressure: 32000 psi, or 220 MPa
    or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
    
    C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
    loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
    that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
    and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
    USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
    
    Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                          %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
    ---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Alliant POWER PISTOL               105.0      5.9     0.38    1422    89.7    30987    1866   0.834  ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D037.1                       101.3      7.8     0.50    1408    78.9    32000    1834   0.832  ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate No.7                      102.0      7.8     0.50    1408    78.9    32000    1834   0.832  ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D036                          79.6      5.8     0.38    1384    92.6    32000    1660   0.842  ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate No.5                       79.6      5.8     0.38    1384    92.6    32000    1659   0.841  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Longshot                    83.0      5.9     0.38    1372    96.4    32000    1556   0.845  ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant BULLSEYE                    92.7      4.4     0.28    1370   100.0    32000    1435   0.842  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon HS-6                        86.5      6.1     0.39    1367    94.6    32000    1567   0.848  ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Silhouette                  87.3      5.4     0.35    1364    99.4    32000    1462   0.846  ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 540                      80.0      5.9     0.38    1364    96.5    32000    1527   0.849  ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot True Blue                   81.3      5.9     0.38    1363    96.4    32000    1529   0.849  ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester WAP                      87.6      5.4     0.35    1363    99.2    32000    1467   0.847  ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori 3N37                    105.0      5.8     0.37    1358    96.1    29642    1569   0.863
    Alliant UNIQUE                     105.0      4.8     0.31    1356    99.9    29504    1462   0.870
    Vihtavuori N330                    100.9      4.7     0.30    1337   100.0    32000    1208   0.851  ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N340                    104.0      4.9     0.32    1336   100.0    32000    1324   0.857  ! Near Maximum !
    Hodgdon Universal                   99.8      4.5     0.29    1336   100.0    32000    1247   0.863  ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S020                          96.4      4.8     0.31    1331   100.0    32000    1270   0.859  ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N350                    105.0      5.4     0.35    1309    95.3    27141    1477   0.895
    Lovex S030                          93.0      4.6     0.30    1302    99.9    32000    1236   0.870  ! Near Maximum !
    Maxam CSB 2                        105.0      4.5     0.29    1299   100.0    28701    1147   0.893
    Lovex D037.2 Heavy Pistol          105.0      8.0     0.52    1298    68.2    28318    1598   0.897
    Accurate Solo 1250                 104.9      4.4     0.29    1297   100.0    32000    1136   0.869  ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate No.2                       94.4      4.4     0.29    1292    98.7    32000    1278   0.875  ! Near Maximum !
    Winchester 231                      83.1      4.5     0.29    1290   100.0    32000    1122   0.874  ! Near Maximum !
    Ramshot Zip                         74.6      4.5     0.29    1290   100.0    32000    1122   0.874  ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate No.9                      105.0      7.9     0.51    1283    67.6    27311    1574   0.910
    Hodgdon HP38                        73.7      4.4     0.28    1282   100.0    32000    1095   0.877  ! Near Maximum !
    Maxam CSB 3                        102.5      4.2     0.27    1275   100.0    32000    1055   0.879  ! Near Maximum !
    Alliant GREEN DOT                  101.1      4.0     0.26    1270   100.0    32000    1062   0.888  ! Near Maximum !
    Vihtavuori N320                     96.8      4.0     0.26    1268   100.0    32000    1023   0.883  ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D032                          66.3      3.9     0.26    1262   100.0    32000    1090   0.885  ! Near Maximum !
    Accurate Nitro 100                  97.3      3.6     0.23    1260   100.0    32000    1052   0.887  ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex D013                          97.3      3.6     0.23    1260   100.0    32000    1052   0.887  ! Near Maximum !
    Lovex S011                          83.9      4.0     0.26    1257   100.0    32000    1039   0.885  ! Near Maximum !
    Maxam CSB 4                         98.1      3.9     0.25    1252   100.0    32000    1001   0.889  ! Near Maximum !
    Maxam CSB 1                        105.0      4.4     0.28    1248   100.0    28330    1073   0.913
    Alliant HERCO                      105.0      4.7     0.30    1243    96.2    22186    1413   0.979
    Alliant RED DOT                    102.3      3.6     0.23    1240   100.0    32000     990   0.902  ! Near Maximum !
    Last edited by P Flados; 08-02-2022 at 10:21 PM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    I have excellent results with cfe pistol for 45 and 380 in pistol and carbine. Mellow, low flash but excellent velocity (380 faster than hornady defense or sig v-crown factory ammo at max standard book load, pistol and carbine) and very clean burning. Light bullet loads can be hard to get slow powders to burn completly and 10" is not really long enough to burn finicky magnum powders without a heavy stopper to get things heated up.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    What about 9 Major loadings?

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    And I cant help but think 2400 would be a interesting experiment here with magnum primers. Maybe even Lil Gun.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy anothernewb's Avatar
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    The trouble the test had with getting high velocities out of PCC's was the bolt. it doesn't function like a locked breech in a pistol, you have to weigh burn time and speed against the simple mass of the bolt. can't generate pressure peaks like a locked breech can. slower powders were throwing fire out the bolt IIRC.

    Wish I could find that link. was an interesting video.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    My suggestion , with that 10" bbl taken into consideration ... Accurate #7

    The unlocked , blowback action might work better with a heavier boolit , 90 grs. is light and the boolit weight will affect the actions cycle . The blowback action is designed to operate with a narrow range of boolit weights and velocities ... load a few and test cycling , From my experience Accurate #7 should give you one of the higher velocities with the long barrel without being too slow .
    Post #7 shows it to be in the top of it's powder class ... and Accurate powders used to be available , as of yesterday . If you already have some Accurate #5 on hand , that might be worth a try ...
    A powder on the bench is worth two powders you don't have .

    Keep us posted ,
    Gary
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    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  13. #13
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by anothernewb View Post
    The trouble the test had with getting high velocities out of PCC's was the bolt. it doesn't function like a locked breech in a pistol, you have to weigh burn time and speed against the simple mass of the bolt. can't generate pressure peaks like a locked breech can. slower powders were throwing fire out the bolt IIRC.
    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    The unlocked , blowback action might work better with a heavier boolit , 90 grs. is light and the boolit weight will affect the actions cycle . The blowback action is designed to operate with a narrow range of boolit weights and velocities ...

    Keep us posted ,
    Gary
    I keep forgetting about that. I think you guys could be right and the slower stuff would cause issues. A heavier recoil spring might be worth looking into.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Power Pistol burns great in my Camp 9. I think the worries about bolt weight are pretty much unfounded unless you are using a light weight buffer in an AR. Any powder that can reach 30-35k PSI will be just fine in the blowback. If you have a case full of really slow powder like AA #9, lets say about 7.5 grains, and it only gets to 20k max PSI then you might get some flame at the ejection port.

    If you do run into issues you need to increase bolt weight, not spring weight. Springs add virtually zero inertia and won't stop a blowback from unlocking early. As little as 3-5% bolt weight increase will add a noticable amount of time to the cycle and delay extraction.

    Power Pistol can get 115 grain jacketed bullets up to about 1550 fps in a 16" and the 10.5" probably only loses 30-50 fps. With faster powders and jacketed bullets you might find that the 10.5" is 10-50 fps faster because of barrel friction. Power Pistol, BE-86 and AA #7 can all do really well in multiple 16" blowback carbines and can shoot 95 gr at about 1700 fps, 115 at 1550 fps, 124 at 1450 fps and 147 at about 1200 fps.
    Last edited by mnewcomb59; 08-04-2022 at 06:27 PM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by CZbob9 View Post
    I keep forgetting about that. I think you guys could be right and the slower stuff would cause issues. A heavier recoil spring might be worth looking into.
    After reading this thread again and doing more thinking , taking the blow back action into consideration ... I first thought Accurate #7 would be "the best" powder ... but something a little faster like Accurate #5 might be "the best" or better .
    Lately I've seen some Accurate powders at local dealer's ... if you don't have any they might be "obtainable" somewhere .
    After the last shortage , Accurate powders were the first to show up on my local dealer's shelf and he had a "sale" ... I stocked up deep on Accurate #2 , #5 and #7 .
    Good luck ,
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  16. #16
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    AA5 or AA7 might just work. My bet is that AA5 would be better.
    WWG1WGA

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy 1006's Avatar
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    HS-6 and a rifle primer

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    231 works good.

  19. #19
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    Compressed Bluedot works great in the 9mm. I don't have any experience with a blowback 9mm though...

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    I send W231. Just curious, why hyper speed 90 gr? Never heard of anyone trying for this. Just curious.

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