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Thread: Wow!!!!!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Freightman's Avatar
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    Wow!!!!!

    Boy howdy it has been a long hot July, very little rain, pastures turning brown, well getting low, was looking like we were going to have to move the cows. When all looked hopeless I heard a rumble at 9 pm a cloud was rolling out of NM lightning storm I thought. At 9: the lights went so went to bed, rain started and continued all night. Woke up this AM it had rained 5.25" God is good, He provides. AMEN!!!!!!
    Frank G.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Excellent; we're still hurting here in SE KS. I watch where I take the tractor these days so I don't get stuck in one of the cracks in the ground. Well, not quite that bad yet but we do have a lot of cracks in the pasture and even in the veg garden. I water every night my remaining Tomato plants and they are doing their best to hold on.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    100 + degrees day after day will crack the ground our pasture was getting that way now has a lake in the middle, pray for rain God will provide. Just laid sod last week in the yard this will let it take hold and go into fall in good shape. We have a range that we haven't used this summer my old body just will not take it any longer. At 83 heat and cold hurt more
    Frank G.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Freightman: Like Texas, S.W. Idaho has it's weather extremes. Record highs are likely the next few days until it cools down to the mid nineties. I don't go out much in this weather, just hang out by the AC. Thank God for modern conveniences, it wasn't something the folks or grandparents had. Gp

  5. #5
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    AC is something that The left is starting to say we don't need or deserve.. Of course THEY will still have it just not us

    https://phys.org/news/2020-09-qa-mul...world-air.html

    Q&A: The multiple benefits of a world without air conditioning
    by Molly Seltzer, Princeton University

    Eric Teitelbaum (center), speaks to visitors inside the Cold Tube pavilion in Singapore. Credit: Lea Ruefenacht
    When most people think of cooling, they automatically imagine air conditioning, or cooling the air in a room. But there is a much more efficient way to cool people, using the body's radiation.


    To demonstrate the effect of radiant cooling, Forrest Meggers, assistant professor of architecture and the Andlinger Center for Energy and the Environment, and a team of researchers built the Cold Tube in Singapore last year. It was an outdoor pavilion lined with novel insulated radiant panels that held cold water pipes inside. The human body is constantly exchanging radiation with objects around it and that radiation flows from hot to cool surfaces. The participants who walked through the exhibit shed their radiation toward the panels and reported feeling cool, despite the air itself having temperature and humidity levels that would ordinarily feel sweltering. The new research showed that people could feel comfortable in hot and humid outdoor environments using only radiant cooling, which could use far less energy than cooling large volumes of air.

    Coincidentally Yueh-Lin (Lynn) Loo, director of the Andlinger Center for Energy and the Environment, has been based in Singapore for the last five months, not far from where Meggers' team tested the Cold Tube. "These alternative designs can disrupt how we think about simultaneously cooling spaces and promoting air circulation," said Loo, who is also the Theodora D. '78 and William H. Walton III '74 Professor in Engineering and professor of chemical and biological engineering. "I think the Cold Tube and similar technologies are exactly the types of innovations that can help make living in the tropics more enjoyable."

    The Princeton researchers, collaborating with scholars at the University of British Columbia, University of Berkeley, ETH Zurich in Singapore, and the University of Pennsylvania, published the Cold Tube results in the August 18 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

    In this Q&A, Meggers and first author of the paper, Dr. Eric Teitelbaum, who completed the research as a graduate student under Meggers and is now a senior engineer at AIL Research, comment on the potential for their technology to save money and energy, as well to help keep people safe in a pandemic like the current COVID-19 crisis by allowing for more air flow in a building without installing new infrastructure or requiring extra energy to cool the greater air volume.

    Schematic of a Cold Tube radiant cooling panel (Upper) and radiant heat transfer through the infrared-transparent membrane (Lower). Credit: Princeton University
    What is the biggest misconception about air conditioning?



    Meggers: Air conditioning does not equal cooling. It's a highly engrained method of cooling buildings, but it's not the only one. Additionally, your window air conditioners are just cooling existing air in the room; they don't bring new, fresh air into your room. Air conditioning (AC) units have become so normalized and integrated into daily life but, in reality, they are huge machines that require a lot of energy, and should not be treated like turning on a light switch. A seemingly simple window unit requires 10 to 1000 times more energy than a ceiling fan, and leaving the AC on is comparable in energy to leaving the light on in 100 rooms.

    What is the benefit of cooling surfaces, such as walls and tables, instead of cooling the air?

    Meggers: In the Cold Tube, occupants are cooled entirely by thermal radiation, which means energy was primarily used for cooling the water inside the walls, not cooling the air. With air conditioning, dehumidification and cooling occur simultaneously. The benefit of the Cold Tube technology is that it decouples cooling from the providing of fresh air, meaning people can keep their windows open, while maintaining comfort, and without expending massive amounts of energy to cool and dehumidify the air flow. Air should be only for breathing, not cooling.

    How are the findings relevant to keeping people safe from viruses like COVID-19?

    Teitelbaum: The way buildings are built today, using exclusively AC for cooling, we can't increase the amount of fresh air we deliver to buildings at will because air flow is coupled with the amount of air conditioning buildings need to provide. If you want more outdoor air flowing into the building, you also need additional capacity to dehumidify and cool that air. Most systems weren't built with the capacity to flow the amount of air that, in many cases, is being recommended to dilute indoor air contaminants and prevent the spread of contagion, like the recent COVID-19 virus. And if they can, it requires massive amounts of energy. But with radiant systems, people can open the windows and still remain comfortable, while letting in extra fresh air to reduce the concentration of virus in the air.


    Credit: Princeton University
    How does this technology help mitigate climate change?

    Teitelbaum: This system uses at least 50% less energy than a comparably-sized air conditioner. Letting the air warm up by five degrees while cooling surfaces can lower energy demand by up to 40% and maintain occupant comfort. Allowing even hotter air temperatures would result in higher energy savings.

    Could this alternative to air conditioning improve outdoor air quality as well by mitigating the urban heat island effect?

    Meggers: Most of my coauthors and I have traveled around Southeast Asia and have seen firsthand how quickly AC units have been deployed at scale. Adding AC window or split units to buildings is done with little contemplation of the effects on surface temperatures, and the climate of and heat in a city. The units work by rejecting the heat from the air in a room to the outside. Rejecting heat outside the buildings along the faÁade leads to sidewalks and areas around buildings becoming very hot, and many spaces becoming unusable. Our technology does exactly the opposite; it provides opportunities to regain thermal acceptability in various parts of the city without having to build a huge park. You can install these cooling panels outside and build "cool havens" where people can gather, eat, and play.

    How important is this experiment in paving the way toward a world where people are cooled without AC?

    Teitelbaum: It will take more than an 8-month experiment to change the way people think about comfort systems and energy efficiency in the built environment. Much of Professor Megger's C.H.A.O.S lab's research has focused on expanding the knowledge bubble of thermal radiation's influence on comfort and efficiency. The Cold Tube experiment created a lot of new knowledge, which is a great academic success. Commercially, while there are companies that manufacture similar technologies, there is still a need to continue to demonstrate and experiment with new concepts to not only further the technology, but also this paradigm shift. The shift away from air conditioning towards more holistic comfort design would help us act as stewards of the planet as well as our own built environments. In many parts of the world, such as Singapore and other tropical areas that are increasingly seeking ways to condition spaces, significantly more energy goes towards dehumidifying the air than just cooling the air. This is one of the places that we believe our comfort paradigm will have the greatest efficiency increases and impact, since dehumidification is not required for people to feel comfortable.
    Last edited by Smoke4320; 07-30-2022 at 10:47 AM.
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    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpidaho View Post
    Freightman: Like Texas, S.W. Idaho has it's weather extremes. Record highs are likely the next few days until it cools down to the mid nineties. I don't go out much in this weather, just hang out by the AC. Thank God for modern conveniences, it wasn't something the folks or grandparents had. Gp
    How many of our ancestors died early from the stresses of extreme heat? When my dad's side of the family came to MN they built a sod hut into the hillside and broke 160 acres of virgin prairie to start a farm. This part of MN sees 100f+ in summer with humidity hitting 90+%... miserable and they worked in it! They did dam the spring and had a 60 degree swimming hole to jump in to cool off now and then...
    Last edited by MaryB; 07-30-2022 at 11:35 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke4320 View Post
    AC is something that The left is starting to say we don't need or deserve.. Of course THEY will still have it just not us

    https://phys.org/news/2020-09-qa-mul...world-air.html

    Q&A: The multiple benefits of a world without air conditioning
    by Molly Seltzer, Princeton University

    Eric Teitelbaum (center), speaks to visitors inside the Cold Tube pavilion in Singapore. Credit: Lea Ruefenacht
    When most people think of cooling, they automatically imagine air conditioning, or cooling the air in a room. But there is a much more efficient way to cool people, using the body's radiation.


    To demonstrate the effect of radiant cooling, Forrest Meggers, assistant professor of architecture and the Andlinger Center for Energy and the Environment, and a team of researchers built the Cold Tube in Singapore last year. It was an outdoor pavilion lined with novel insulated radiant panels that held cold water pipes inside. The human body is constantly exchanging radiation with objects around it and that radiation flows from hot to cool surfaces. The participants who walked through the exhibit shed their radiation toward the panels and reported feeling cool, despite the air itself having temperature and humidity levels that would ordinarily feel sweltering. The new research showed that people could feel comfortable in hot and humid outdoor environments using only radiant cooling, which could use far less energy than cooling large volumes of air.

    Coincidentally Yueh-Lin (Lynn) Loo, director of the Andlinger Center for Energy and the Environment, has been based in Singapore for the last five months, not far from where Meggers' team tested the Cold Tube. "These alternative designs can disrupt how we think about simultaneously cooling spaces and promoting air circulation," said Loo, who is also the Theodora D. '78 and William H. Walton III '74 Professor in Engineering and professor of chemical and biological engineering. "I think the Cold Tube and similar technologies are exactly the types of innovations that can help make living in the tropics more enjoyable."

    The Princeton researchers, collaborating with scholars at the University of British Columbia, University of Berkeley, ETH Zurich in Singapore, and the University of Pennsylvania, published the Cold Tube results in the August 18 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

    In this Q&A, Meggers and first author of the paper, Dr. Eric Teitelbaum, who completed the research as a graduate student under Meggers and is now a senior engineer at AIL Research, comment on the potential for their technology to save money and energy, as well to help keep people safe in a pandemic like the current COVID-19 crisis by allowing for more air flow in a building without installing new infrastructure or requiring extra energy to cool the greater air volume.

    Schematic of a Cold Tube radiant cooling panel (Upper) and radiant heat transfer through the infrared-transparent membrane (Lower). Credit: Princeton University
    What is the biggest misconception about air conditioning?



    Meggers: Air conditioning does not equal cooling. It's a highly engrained method of cooling buildings, but it's not the only one. Additionally, your window air conditioners are just cooling existing air in the room; they don't bring new, fresh air into your room. Air conditioning (AC) units have become so normalized and integrated into daily life but, in reality, they are huge machines that require a lot of energy, and should not be treated like turning on a light switch. A seemingly simple window unit requires 10 to 1000 times more energy than a ceiling fan, and leaving the AC on is comparable in energy to leaving the light on in 100 rooms.

    What is the benefit of cooling surfaces, such as walls and tables, instead of cooling the air?

    Meggers: In the Cold Tube, occupants are cooled entirely by thermal radiation, which means energy was primarily used for cooling the water inside the walls, not cooling the air. With air conditioning, dehumidification and cooling occur simultaneously. The benefit of the Cold Tube technology is that it decouples cooling from the providing of fresh air, meaning people can keep their windows open, while maintaining comfort, and without expending massive amounts of energy to cool and dehumidify the air flow. Air should be only for breathing, not cooling.

    How are the findings relevant to keeping people safe from viruses like COVID-19?

    Teitelbaum: The way buildings are built today, using exclusively AC for cooling, we can't increase the amount of fresh air we deliver to buildings at will because air flow is coupled with the amount of air conditioning buildings need to provide. If you want more outdoor air flowing into the building, you also need additional capacity to dehumidify and cool that air. Most systems weren't built with the capacity to flow the amount of air that, in many cases, is being recommended to dilute indoor air contaminants and prevent the spread of contagion, like the recent COVID-19 virus. And if they can, it requires massive amounts of energy. But with radiant systems, people can open the windows and still remain comfortable, while letting in extra fresh air to reduce the concentration of virus in the air.


    Credit: Princeton University
    How does this technology help mitigate climate change?

    Teitelbaum: This system uses at least 50% less energy than a comparably-sized air conditioner. Letting the air warm up by five degrees while cooling surfaces can lower energy demand by up to 40% and maintain occupant comfort. Allowing even hotter air temperatures would result in higher energy savings.

    Could this alternative to air conditioning improve outdoor air quality as well by mitigating the urban heat island effect?

    Meggers: Most of my coauthors and I have traveled around Southeast Asia and have seen firsthand how quickly AC units have been deployed at scale. Adding AC window or split units to buildings is done with little contemplation of the effects on surface temperatures, and the climate of and heat in a city. The units work by rejecting the heat from the air in a room to the outside. Rejecting heat outside the buildings along the faÁade leads to sidewalks and areas around buildings becoming very hot, and many spaces becoming unusable. Our technology does exactly the opposite; it provides opportunities to regain thermal acceptability in various parts of the city without having to build a huge park. You can install these cooling panels outside and build "cool havens" where people can gather, eat, and play.

    How important is this experiment in paving the way toward a world where people are cooled without AC?

    Teitelbaum: It will take more than an 8-month experiment to change the way people think about comfort systems and energy efficiency in the built environment. Much of Professor Megger's C.H.A.O.S lab's research has focused on expanding the knowledge bubble of thermal radiation's influence on comfort and efficiency. The Cold Tube experiment created a lot of new knowledge, which is a great academic success. Commercially, while there are companies that manufacture similar technologies, there is still a need to continue to demonstrate and experiment with new concepts to not only further the technology, but also this paradigm shift. The shift away from air conditioning towards more holistic comfort design would help us act as stewards of the planet as well as our own built environments. In many parts of the world, such as Singapore and other tropical areas that are increasingly seeking ways to condition spaces, significantly more energy goes towards dehumidifying the air than just cooling the air. This is one of the places that we believe our comfort paradigm will have the greatest efficiency increases and impact, since dehumidification is not required for people to feel comfortable.
    Sorry but when humidity levels hit 90% it is NOT going to be comfortable in the room.

    I keep my living room around 78-79f and 36% humidity in summer... not over cooled like some people do. I dress for summer, shorts, tank top... I keep all south and west facing windows covered in summer to stop that heat gain(and in winter open to get solar gain!).

    And there are millions of people who cannot handle heat and humidity. Makes it very hard to breathe fr them stressing their hearts... see my other post about how long our ancestors lived...

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryB View Post
    How many of our ancestors died early from the stresses of extreme heat? ..
    There's always some exceptions, but yes- a hot climate definitely thins the herd.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
    This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy hoodat's Avatar
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    There's plenty of us who have to work in this heat, get the job done, and -- not die. My favorite personal cooling device is a light cotton shirt. Soak with water, put it on, wear till dry -- repeat.

    We've been hitting 100 degrees every day for awhile now, and out on the asphalt it's prolly more like 120. My eyes are gonna get stuck in "permanent roll" position if I listen to more people who work in the AC building, whining about the heat.

    I drive delivery truck, short haul, mostly to residential construction. My day consists of building my loads, loading my truck, driving to job sites, and unloading my truck with either a truck mounted crane or piggy-back fork lift. About a third of my day is spent behind the wheel enjoying the AC.

    The guys I deliver to, (framers, roofers, dry-wallers,) they don't get to spend much time in the AC. I haven't seen any of em drop dead lately, although they've got good reason to. jd
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


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    No rain here in East Texas for me! 100+ for over a month!

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    YOU THINK THIS A GOOD IDEA ? GIVE ALL THIS A TRY. AND LET ME KNOW HOW YOU FAIR? IN SUMMER I CAN ONLY TAKE OFF SO MANY CLOTHES. IN WINTER I CAN PUT ON MANY MORE. IN MINNESOTA I HAVE SEEN -50 DEGs IN WINTER WITH ABOUT %10 HUMIDTY TO OVER 100 DEGs IN SUMMER WITH ABOUT %90 HUMIDTY I WILL STAY WITH AC>>>> I WORK OUTSIDE YEAR-ROUND.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


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    Forrest Meggers, Molly Seltzer and Eric Teitelbaum should try their idea on the Texas/Louisiana coast. Where are they going to get cool water? Tap water is over 80 degrees F when air conditioning is needed most. Without the extraction of moisture from the air the insides of buildings will grow mold and mildew in short order. Most days in the 8 month long cooling season exceed 85% humidity. The only way to be comfortable at that level of humidity at any temperature above the upper 60s is to sit down and not do anything that requires moving around.

    Problem number one is that the idea was developed as a college research paper by wide eyed mush brained students educated by professors with an agenda. There are buildings in the downtown Houston area that are cooled with chilled water but the infrastructure for such cooling is massive, expensive and uses lots of electricity.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by hoodat View Post
    There's plenty of us who have to work in this heat, get the job done, and -- not die. My favorite personal cooling device is a light cotton shirt. Soak with water, put it on, wear till dry -- repeat. jd
    Yeah, try that with high humidity. The shirt wouldn’t dry until you took it off and put it in air conditioning or laundered it. I’ve lived in deserts and swamps. At 95 degrees with 20% humidity the heat isn’t a big deal. At 80 degrees with 85%+ humidity it’s oppressive.

    We’re finally getting a break from the heat. It’s supposed to dip down to 77 degrees at night next week.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Hey; see you're from Baytown. My Grandson used to race B Mods down there. He didn't like the sweltering temps though.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Go into a city or town and unplug all of the electric vehicles from the grid. That'll help.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy varmintpopper's Avatar
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    100 Years ago, 1922 the life expectation for the average Man was 47 Years.

    Good Shooting

    Lindy

  17. #17
    Boolit Master elmacgyver0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varmintpopper View Post
    100 Years ago, 1922 the life expectation for the average Man was 47 Years.

    Good Shooting

    Lindy
    And many of them lived into their high nineties, you need to tell the "rest" of the story

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I grew up in San Antonio during the 60ís and we didnít have AC - or central heat. There were only two radiant gas heaters in the house for winter and ventilation fans for summer. Most of the schools didnít have AC either, which was supposedly the reason our annual break was always in summer.

    Our AC went out over July 4th this year and took a couple days to fix. I was OK with fans but I thought my wife was going to a motel, because she was pretty miserable. She does have a narrow comfort range, while Iím generally good from the 40ís to about 100. Much past 100 and I have trouble getting cool.

    And we hit 50 days over 100 today - hottest July on record since 1885, with no rain in the last 70 days. Freightman, Iím happy for your blessing, please send some down here.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master



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    We were in drought and the grass was brown and crackly. Now we have had three days of rain with more rain tomorrow. The grass is now green!
    I was planting berry plants. Now I can’t rototill until it dries a little. Oh, well!

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    It rained 12 miles away yesterday.
    Still crispy here.
    My beloved late uncle Morris from Muleshoe used to say, "Why I remember one time it never did rain."

    Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

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