Ziebart or ?????

[warren5421]

Have a new Honda HR-V Sport in RED to hit the dealers Aug 13-17. Thinking of having it undercoated by Ziebart, don't know if it will help or hurt as wifes KIA subframe rusted away till no attached sway bar or sever other items. Would like to protect the new car if I can. Is there anything out there better than Ziebart?

[elmacgyver0]

Ziebart couldn't hurt.
The price of new vehicles, you would think they could make them out of stainless steel.

[Winger Ed.]

Sure it'll help.
But not driving it in the winter when they salt the roads up there is the biggie to preserve it.

When I was stationed up on the East coast,
I was amazed to see a few cars 2-3 years old and the fenders were flapping from being rusted out.

Guys from up there in the snow belt talked of people having a old, beat up 'winter beater' to drive when the roads were salted.
They didn't drive their newer car at all until the weather cleared and the roads had washed them selves off.

Here, if you drive on or around the coast the same thing happens.
You also see car washes that spray as much under your car to wash the salt spray off as they spray on the outside.

[elmacgyver0]

Sure it'll help.
But not driving it in the winter when they salt the roads up there is the biggie to preserve it.

When I was stationed up on the East coast,
I was amazed to see a few cars 2-3 years old and the fenders were flapping from being rusted out.

Guys from up there in the snow belt talked of people having a old, beat up 'winter beater' to drive when the roads were salted.
They didn't drive their newer car at all until the weather cleared and the roads had washed them selves off.

Here, if you drive on or around the coast the same thing happens.
You also see car washes that spray as much under your car to wash the salt spray off as they spray on the outside.

The problem with the spray offs is the car washed recycle the water, so the underside gets washed in salt water, better than nothing I guess.

[Winger Ed.]

The problem with the spray offs is the car washed recycle the water, so the underside gets washed in salt water, better than nothing I guess.

Hmm. I never saw anything around ours that could hold and recycle the water.
But then again, I haven't been down to the coast in several years.

The ones I'm familiar with are just the washer/sprayer thing on top of the ground you drive up onto,
a drain that goes to a underground sand trap before it runs into the sewer, and a box to take your money.

[hawkenhunter50]

Might take a look at fluid film also. I did my truck myself with FF and it's holding up great going on almost 5 years now.

[BLAHUT]

Old navy gun builder in the arms plant told me many years ago spray underside with automatic transmition fulid clamed would protect from salt tryed that many years ago don't rember if it did any good ??

[aap2]

When I bought my new Honda CRV the dealer had it Ziebarted which I did not request and I made it clear that I wasn’t paying for this. The salesman had a fit and insisted that aftermarket rustproofing was “essential” here in western PA…..my experience with more than a few new Vehicles indicates that it’s unnecessary and can be harmful trapping water and road salt. Get it if you want to; I skip it. We got the Ziebart for free when I had the salesman read the section of the owner’s manual advising against aftermarket rust proofing.

[Red River Rick]

Ziebart was sued here in Canada because their product did more damage than good, for reasons as mentioned by Aap2. I would stay away from any rust preventative coatings.

[TyGuy]

Might take a look at fluid film also. I did my truck myself with FF and it's holding up great going on almost 5 years now.

I’ll second this. Fluid film is the go-to as far as I’m concerned. I have seen Ziebart treated cars that were as rusty as untreated ones. I have also seen them rust at the spots they drill into to do the treatment in the door jambs. With fluid film you’ll have to reapply it every few years but there is no permanent alteration to the vehicle like Ziebart and it doesn’t make it a pain in the tush to work on like traditional undercoating.

[alamogunr]

Didn't Ziebart used to use Alox 505 or something similar?

[AlHunt]

As above, ATF or motor oil once a year sprayed around under the car. Garaging it or at least parking it on a concrete slab makes a difference in undercarriage deterioration, too. I live in the far, frozen north where we deal with this issue a lot.

[Finster101]

Old navy gun builder in the arms plant told me many years ago spray underside with automatic transmition fulid clamed would protect from salt tryed that many years ago don't rember if it did any good ??

That would probably destroy more parts over time than you can imagine. ATF does not play well with many plastics as well as seals and hoses that are not made for it.

[Geezer in NH]

Sure it'll help.
But not driving it in the winter when they salt the roads up there is the biggie to preserve it.

When I was stationed up on the East coast,
I was amazed to see a few cars 2-3 years old and the fenders were flapping from being rusted out.

Guys from up there in the snow belt talked of people having a old, beat up 'winter beater' to drive when the roads were salted.
They didn't drive their newer car at all until the weather cleared and the roads had washed them selves off.

Here, if you drive on or around the coast the same thing happens.
You also see car washes that spray as much under your car to wash the salt spray off as they spray on the outside.

Yes, they do with recycled salt water for all the good that does.

[warren5421]

Is there anything you can do to prevent the subframes from rusting. Not driving in the winter is out. If we moved south we hit salt air and water, north hits calcium chloride, east and west are just as bad.

[winelover]

Ziebart was sued here in Canada because their product did more damage than good, for reasons as mentioned by Aap2. I would stay away from any rust preventative coatings.

My family has been using Ziebart since 1967 on brand new vehicles. We lived in Detroit. The 67 Buick LeSabre Dad kept till 1978 till it was replaced with a 1978 Grand Prix. The Ziebarted Grand Prix was replaced with a 1992 Buick Regal, Dad's last car. None of these vehicles rusted out and when they were sold, commanded top dollar.

My 1972 Chevelle SS was Ziebarted and I still own it after 50 years............no rust. I've owned full size vans since then, starting in 1977 and kept for a minimum of 10 years. Had a 1985, 1993 which were Ziebarted. Neither, rusted out and were sold by word of mouth to the first buyer that looked at them. With the new body style that came out around 1996, GM went to galvanized sheet metal and I stopped rust proofing them. Currently, own a 2004 and 2010 full size Express vans that are rust free.

Besides the Ziebart, I always washed/rinsed the sheetmetal and undercarriage with fresh water whenever the temperature was above 32 degrees. Very rarely did our vehicles go to car washes.

I totally recommend Ziebart. However, we always drove out vehicles straight to Ziebart. Didn't go through the dealer. In 1967, the dealerships in the Detroit area weren't even offering it yet.

Winelover

[uscra112]

Superannuated auto industry engineer here.

It depends a LOT on the particular vehicle.

Some bodies have pockets in the design that collect water and salt, others don't. Purely a matter of body engineering. Compare F-150s prior to the big body redesign that occurred about Y2K. Older ones rust like mad, newer ones don't. Got a lecture from the Ford guys about this, they were rather proud of the new body.

Some manufacturers do a good job of rust-proofing the body-in-white, (prior to painting), others don't. Honda, in my experience, is one company that DOES do a good job pf rust-proofing. Example - my 2006 Honda Odyssey has zero rust, despite living in Ohio its' whole life. Chrysler minivans, same vintage and history, the rocker panels are almost always in bad shape.

I haven't looked at Ziebart for many years, but one thing I objected to back in the early days was that the process involved drilling holes to get the spray into closed cavities. Do that today and the factory rust coating is compromised, doing more harm than good.

Would I Ziebart the O.P.'s Honda? No. If it were a Kia or an Isuzu, definitely yes.

[JSnover]

The problem with the spray offs is the car washed recycle the water, so the underside gets washed in salt water, better than nothing I guess.

I can't verify what sort of water they use but I've been washing my cars that way forever and never had the undercarriage rust out on me. One of them ran for 17 years/309,000 miles (bought new in Minnesota, moved to Massachusetts, retired in Pennsylvania) by the time I gave it away. It was still mechanically sound and passed inspection.
Something is better than nothing for sure.

[uscra112]

PA inspection is very strict about body rust, as I recall.

[AlHunt]

As above, ATF or motor oil sprayed in the fall around the frame and metal parts under the car. Garaging it or at least parking it on a concrete slab makes a difference in undercarriage deterioration, too. I live in the far, frozen north where we deal with this issue a lot.