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Thread: Best Big Bore Cartridge

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
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    Best Big Bore Cartridge

    All,

    I've been on a kick here recently of wanting to buy a big bore single shot rifle. Either a break barrel CVA Scout in 45-70 or a Ruger American in 450 bushmaster. I have been bouncing between 45-70 and 450 Bushmaster. I know whatever 450 Bushmaster can do the 45-70 can do better but I don't see a need to load that darn hot anyway. My question is what is the best option for cast lead bullets? I have read just about every thread I can on the subject and the most I'm getting relates to ARs in 450 and I'm not finding any detailed threads about the CVA V2 Scout in 45-70. I'd love to know if anyone has had good accuracy out of either of these and with what mold.

    Also, for full power rounds I assume I will need to gas check the rounds for either caliber but I have been wrong before. Is gas checking going to be necessary or just load dependent?

    Sorry if this comes off stupid. I've been casting for a while now but never thought about moving into the big bore rifle world.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated y'all.
    Last edited by sutherpride59; 07-28-2022 at 01:57 PM.
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  2. #2
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    If you want a an inexpensive big bore rifle, get a big bore rifle. The H&R Tracker II is rifled, and can be had in either 12 or 20 gauge. If you want a 45 caliber, I'd go for the Henry single shot. Mines not in 45-70, but accuracy is phenomenal. You can be sure it will shoot at least 1.5 MOA. I've seen numerous reports of surprising accuracy with plainbase bullets in 45-70 up around 1700-1800 fps.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Pereira's Avatar
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    Well, I own a pair of 444's and have no use or info on the other two.
    The 320+ gr pill I cast is Hell on dogs and deer.

    RP

    If you don't have a C&R FFL, you really need to consider getting one------it's a license to spend money, though.
    Quote by a member of another forum.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I know nothing about the 450 Bushmaster but have owned a multitude of 45-70's over the last 40 years. There is a reason it's still around...

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    1.) I don't think your post/question is stupid. But I think your question seems to ask if we should advise you to invest in oranges or apples. Both lovely examples of fruit, but hardly interchangeable.

    The 2 rifles don't seem very similar, so I guess it's a question of what your intended purpose for one or the other might be. All OTHER factors being equal, I'D be inclined to go with the CVA in .45-70. Properly loaded, it'll drop any game animal in the western hemisphere, and a great portion of African game. With a scope (at least for ME), it's a 300 yard rifle, depending on the load, and your shoulder's willingness to tolerate the recoil.
    Ballistically, the .450 Bushmaster appears to be a 200 yard round. Its main advantage seems to be that it delivers serious short(er) range game-getting power in an AR platform. If you already have an AR-whatever, I would THINK that another upper in .450 Bush could be had, and would make a fairly unobtrusive "brush thumper" in a platform with which you are already quite familiar.
    The CVA in .45-70 will deliver serious ballistic "thump" to a target at any range at which you can connect, but it offers no fast follow-up shot. The .450 B'master starts with ballistics equal to the .358 Winchester at the muzzle, but its projectile will shuck velocity quickly. At 150 yards and beyond, the .358 would have a clear advantage, and so would the .45-70. On the other hand, a fast follow-up shot IS possible, if needed.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


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  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'd go 45-70. Can load mild to wild.
    What will be the availability of brass,
    dies etc. of 450B in a few years?
    Tried to feed a 450 Marlin lately?
    Don't need GC's for 45-70, powder
    coating and paper patching are
    options, as are lever, bolt and
    single shot rifles.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Wow! Lots of replies in short order! Thanks for the info guys. I guess the biggest bother for me was there isn't a lot of info on cast boolits in the 450 bushmaster and the few things I found about 45-70 cast in the CVA said the accuracy was a little disappointing. I think if I could get around 2" groups at 100 I would be pretty happy with that. I just don't want to put a lot of effort into reloading and get poop. One post mentioned that the CVA barrel has gain rifling and that it doesn't work well with cast boolits. I couldn't find any information to confirm that but I'll research anything to death before I actually do it.

    I guess it would be best to wait for a CVA in 45-70 to pop up in my area. Seems like since I became interested CVA either stopped producing them or they have all been snatched up.

    I thought about 450 bushmaster AR upper but from all the reading they aren't worth the hassle unless you buy a top dollar upper from Tromix. Seems like the others just don't run worth a flip.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Welp too late, I'm impulsive, I bought the CVA 45-70 . I guess tonight I'll have to buy dies and a new mold. Thanks for all the info y'all.
    90% professional 10% mature

  9. #9
    Unless you intend on getting an AR-15 in 450 Bushmaster there's no reason to get one. I think you made a great choice. Lee makes six different moulds for the caliber and several are historical copies.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    I too like my "Big Bores" including the 577 Snider!

    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Daekar's Avatar
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    You made the right choice. I would expect lead bullets to work extremely well with gain twist rifling because they will be less likely to strip out.
    I'm a big fan of data-driven decisions. You want to make me smile, show me a spreadsheet! Extra points for graphs and best-fit predictive equations.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    I shoot a 45/70 in compitision and have them for hunting. Don't need to load to acheave light speed 500 gr out of a roling block 1200fps super accurate out to 1000yds> 45/70 works just fine in lever gun for deer with a 500gr flat nose bullet or as a bear load.. All pure lead> have a 45/60 lever for hunting deer> none are gaschecked> don't need if you stay under 1200 fps>

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    You won't be sorry you got the 45 70.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  14. #14
    Boolit Master 44Blam's Avatar
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    I've got an 1895 with a MVA staff sight. I've been able to hit 2' targets at 625 yards consistently.
    I like H335 and I've got a NOE boolit that is 350 grain with an HP. I generally send them right around 1900 fps. With that boolit at that speed it is stout but not unpleasant. It will also take down just about anything that walks the earth - and is good insurance in case of a T-Rex.
    WWG1WGA

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    I guess I'm in luck then I have H335 & H4198. Now if I could only find some darn brass lol.
    90% professional 10% mature

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I also agree that you made the right choice wrt caliber. The CVA has never "turned my crank" but so what?!?!

    If you decide to get a better rifle, at least you have the right caliber.

    Good luck.
    Don Verna


  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by sutherpride59 View Post
    Welp too late, I'm impulsive, I bought the CVA 45-70 . I guess tonight I'll have to buy dies and a new mold. Thanks for all the info y'all.
    LIKE LIKE LIKE !!!

    For some reason I have always wanted a single shot rifle ... like a Sharps , Trap door Springfield , Remington Rolling Block , Henry or even a break action ... inner old west buffalo hunter ???
    But always chambered in 45 - 70 ...
    Untill I saw that movie with the 45-110 1874 Sharps ... but it's simply a 45-70 Long ...
    I would still go with the 45-70 chambering !
    Good Move !
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by sutherpride59 View Post
    Welp too late, I'm impulsive, I bought the CVA 45-70 . I guess tonight I'll have to buy dies and a new mold. Thanks for all the info y'all.
    LIKE LIKE LIKE !!!

    For some reason I have always wanted a single shot rifle ... like a Sharps , Trap door Springfield , Remington Rolling Block , Henry or even a break action ... inner old west buffalo hunter ???
    But always chambered in 45 - 70 ...
    Untill I saw that movie with the 45-110 1874 Sharps ... but it's simply a 45-70 Long ...
    I would still go with the 45-70 chambering !
    Good Move !
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    Of the 2.. I would go 45-70. The cartridge itself can load down to trap door levels, and in the correct chamber can get near 458winmag

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Of the 2.. I would go 45-70...
    He already bought the .45-70….



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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check