Thirty Caliber Flat Points

[Pepe le PewPew]

I only have two things to add, as I’ve only killed paper with cast in a rifle.
First, since your rifle has the 31 cal bore, do you know how much free bore there is? Who’s to say it’s to print since bore is not “standard”. Maybe it HAS enough free bore to allow way more bullet out of the case. Same as to what works through the magazine, you didn’t state it WAS a short action rifle. If it’s a long action you could potentially use an even heavier bullet (only speaking to mag length, not twist issues etc).
I think you’ve left out some important info to take into consideration of what your “outer limits” actually are.
Random thoughts from this random guy on the interwebs.
.
BTW thanks to all that shared what’s worked for them at the bench and in the fields.
Been thinking I should get a mold and start shooting my Swiss K31 again, going to research what designs work well with its chamber etc.

[Pepe le PewPew]

I Phone double post sorry! Deleted

[Good Cheer]

In this "31-08" bolt action the first of the rifling starts engraving on the .311 sized #311284 front driving when the gas check base is seated even with the back of the case neck. And, the front of #311284 is long enough that the nose is going down the chamber when the case base pops out of the magazine. It's a pretty nice match but yeah, that's all mold selection stuff. It's the bore riding portion of the boolits at .295 diameter (small for most any 7.62) that is going to need massaging. That bore matching nose is the best fit I've come up with, hence asking the question about anyone using a .30 caliber flat nose for hunting. I think the only place I've ever read about using flat points on long heavy boolits was in connection with muzzleloading target rifles.

[Good Cheer]

Got busy with other things and haven't gone forward with the flat point.
But, I found a #314299 I didn't know I had.
The bore rider portion seems to be a perfect fit even if the spire point isn't.

[wmitty]

Bob Hagel wrote extensively for Handloader and Rifle magazines. He had hunting/shooting experience regarding North American game which very few of us will attain. The importance of jacketed bullet construction was emphasized by Hagel, along with the importance of sectional density for adequate penetration of the game being hunted. Now, jacketed and cast are apples and oranges, I realize, but surely sectional density along with an adequate frontal surface area are important in hunting with cast loads. Does a increase in meplat diameter result in a proportional decrease in projectile stability if the boolit length is unchanged? Can a boolit with x sectional density remain stable to say 200 yds with a cylindrical profile ( full diameter meplat)? I’d really like to know if anyone has experience with this, as I have wondered the same thing. Is there an easy way to block off the front portion of a mould cavity to allow a cylindrical or near cylindrical boolit to be cast?

[Good Cheer]

Me too. I want to know.

[rockrat]

I remember reading about someone turning some inserts in his lathe, that would fit the front of the mould, so as to make a pretty decent flat points.

[yeahbub]

I've been experimenting with the group-buy 311041 plain base cast of 50/50 WW/lead, PC'd and sized .311. In 7.62x54 with 20gr of AA5744 at 100 yards it looks like a reliable 2" performer and may be this year's hunting combo. The jury is still out on the same load in the .30-30. The smaller case may need to be backed off to 19gr to produce acceptable pressure/velocity but testing continues with bumping a larger meplat for safety in the mag tube as well as mild engraving on the nose.

[centershot]

Bob Hagel wrote extensively for Handloader and Rifle magazines. He had hunting/shooting experience regarding North American game which very few of us will attain. The importance of jacketed bullet construction was emphasized by Hagel, along with the importance of sectional density for adequate penetration of the game being hunted. Now, jacketed and cast are apples and oranges, I realize, but surely sectional density along with an adequate frontal surface area are important in hunting with cast loads. Does a increase in meplat diameter result in a proportional decrease in projectile stability if the boolit length is unchanged? Can a boolit with x sectional density remain stable to say 200 yds with a cylindrical profile ( full diameter meplat)? I’d really like to know if anyone has experience with this, as I have wondered the same thing. Is there an easy way to block off the front portion of a mould cavity to allow a cylindrical or near cylindrical boolit to be cast?

I believe the answer to the "full-diameter meplat" and success thereof at extended range (over 50 yards) has been shown by pistol shooter's efforts to achieve good groups with .38 WC bullets past 50 yards. The WC profile appears to yaw excessively as it slows and groups open up. I would expect the same of a rifle bullet.

[Digital Dan]

Some experience with this so I’ll chime in. Minutiae aside, the 311041 with wheel weight alloy shoots as accurately and at the same velocity as j-bullets in all of the .30-30’s I’ve tried it in. Fired point blank into damp sand it fragments significantly. Another bullet of .30 caliber I cast is a pointed round nose of the same weight, used for subsonic suppressed applications. Alloy of 30:1 and 1050 FPS in damp sand presents a perfect mushroom with 95% retained weight. They both kill pigs where they stand. Pop and flop.

I’ve not recovered either bullet from a game animal.

[Beaverhunter2]

I'm using the RCBS 308 180FN in .308 Winchester. 35.0gr of IMR3031 with a CCI-200. PC GC and sized to .311" in a Remington 700 SPS. Boolits are 208gr RTL. 2301fps with the 24" barrel. Just over an inch for 5 shots at 100 yds. AC 50-50 at about 12Bhn

I'm pretty happy with it. YMMV

John

[Larry Gibson]

I'm using the RCBS 308 180FN in .308 Winchester. 35.0gr of IMR3031 with a CCI-200. PC GC and sized to .311" in a Remington 700 SPS. Boolits are 208gr RTL. 2301fps with the 24" barrel. Just over an inch for 5 shots at 100 yds. AC 50-50 at about 12Bhn

I'm pretty happy with it. YMMV

John

Excellent performance, similar to what I get out of my M70 albiet with a different load.

The Remington SPS rifles have/had 3 different twists; 10, 10.25 and 12" twists. Which does your rifle have?

[Earl54]

For what its worth, I just started working with a short barreled drilling, 16x16 over a 8x72r, 21.75 inch barrels. Included with the gun was a box of RWS factory loads, 200+ grain lead with a full diameter flat point( full wadcutter), they show no signs of being reloads( aprox. 1950's factory loads). Am golng to disassemble one of the loads and have a custom mould made to match the bullet, looks like it will work well from a tree stand(hope it will print well to 100yds).

[popper]

The '041 is probably the largest FN for the 308W. I used a 31-165C for mine, MOA @ 200 from AR10. Has a 0.18 meplat (60% of 30cal). IIRC, 041 is 80%. Drop was ~ 6" @ 200. No animals (hogs), not for not trying. Pesky critters only show up when they want.
Working on a similar 145gr in henry 308W, pushed a little faster.

[Good Cheer]

Mine is .310" groove diameter, .303" bore and 10" twist.
Going heavy boolit, slow powder, best lube system and alloy only as hard as fate requires of me.

[missionary5155]

50% + FN should do the job at thwaping velocities over 1500 fps. Less than that FPS on target we adjust the mix. But hunting river bottoms shots are always close.

[Beaverhunter2]

Excellent performance, similar to what I get out of my M70 albiet with a different load.

The Remington SPS rifles have/had 3 different twists; 10, 10.25 and 12" twists. Which does your rifle have?

Sorry! I had to wait to get back home to look. 1-12". I replaced the trigger with a Timney and the stock with a Magpul Hunter.

[Larry Gibson]

Sorry! I had to wait to get back home to look. 1-12". I replaced the trigger with a Timney and the stock with a Magpul Hunter.

Excellent. Many don't realze the difference between a 10 and 12" twist, especially with the 308W.

[30calflash]

Larry do you find the 12" twist better for soft cast hunting bullets better than a 10" twist?

[centershot]

From what I've experienced, any twist slower than 1-10 is better for cast bullets, 1-11, 1-12, 1-14.