RepackboxInline FabricationTitan ReloadingRotoMetals2
MidSouth Shooters SupplyBonettWidenersLee Precision

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 119

Thread: Is powder and primers ever coming back?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    TNsailorman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast Tennessee Hills
    Posts
    2,154
    For the time being I am shooting air rifles and pistol only. As far as I am concerned, the "scalper" can choke on their primers and powder. Air pellets are cheap compared to primers and powder. I can stay sharp with air rifles and pistols without breaking the bank or allowing the 'scalper" to get rich. my .02 anyway, james

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    724
    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I can only tell you a general trend that I'm aware of in manufacturing at the moment is that it is going to get worse this fall. Realize I am not in the ammo, or even firearms manufacturing, but the problems we face are shared by all manufacturers at the moment. We can't even get raw goods right now. I work in a printing factory, and the forecast is that we will not be able to get the rolls of paper needed for the jobs we could be getting. Employee wise, we can't hire any more good workers. I'm not aware of any industry at the moment that is any different. The positions are there, but there are no more skilled workers to be had. It's a good time to move up in a company though, they will train you.

    I would not expect anything to change in the next few months. There's no way to increase production right now. Nobody can get the materials or skilled workers. I'm guessing they won't let someone make primers for production until they are certain they know what they are doing, and it's not a job easily automated from what I've seen. Just keep your fingers crossed elections go good this fall, things smooth out with the supply chain, and ammo demand slows this fall. Then maybe next spring things will be better. We also possibly have a new primer factory in Texas opening, but we all know the backstory there.
    This is the gospel. The root cause right now is that raw materials are nearly all being sourced where? Not here. It has become nearly impossible to produce anything in this country without being beholden to the international supply chain. This supply chain is a train wreck, whether intentionally or naturally, pick your conspiracy. Ultimately the government, both sides, have wrecked this country so bad for so long that we are quickly reaching a point of no return.

  3. #23
    Banned


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanzy4200 View Post
    This is the gospel. The root cause right now is that raw materials are nearly all being sourced where? Not here. It has become nearly impossible to produce anything in this country without being beholden to the international supply chain. This supply chain is a train wreck, whether intentionally or naturally, pick your conspiracy. Ultimately the government, both sides, have wrecked this country so bad for so long that we are quickly reaching a point of no return.
    I really can't say where some primer components come from. Plus it's the ammo demand creating the reloading market shortage. For sure copper, steel, and lead are the main components, but who knows. It could be something as simple as a lack of nitrocellulose keeping them from meeting the powder demand. I just pulled that example out of thin air, I doubt that is really the cause. If any single component is short you can't complete any product.

    Copper is mainly produced here in the USA as far as I can tell. Even with that example, maybe a piece of machinery goes down and all mining stops. We are having a heck of a time getting parts and machinery at our work. Even air conditioning units are over a year out for delivery. Many parts are months out. It's to the point most major repairs now go right to the machine shop. I know for sure everyone is hurting for parts. Even on domestic machinery, the places that build these things cant get skilled labor. CNC's only get you so far, at some point you need real machinists, and they are not easy to find.

    Ultimately everything manufacturing is interwoven with multiple industries, and often many different countries. With the giant disruption we went through, it is going to be a while before things smooth out.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

    Land Owner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Mims, FL
    Posts
    1,590
    Good time to break out the Daisey Cal. 4.5mm Air Gun. Watch the BB's rainbow trajectory from muzzle to target. Make a set of Low, Medium, and High "sight ramps" from a piece of wood, e.g. clothes pin (see diagram); to elevate the rear sight and extend the effective range; no "holdover" guessing if the range is fixed. Learn the effective range for each "flat" in a sight ramp.

    I "tuned" mine to a set of those ramps/flats/ranges and keep them with the rifle in a tiny plastic bag. Guesstimating the range to target becomes the GAME as marksmanship becomes quite sharp very quickly. It is FUN and cheap practice that keeps the mind sharp. You can still holdover and the ramp doesn't bend the sight elevator.

    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    7,346
    Quote Originally Posted by TNsailorman View Post
    For the time being I am shooting air rifles and pistol only. As far as I am concerned, the "scalper" can choke on their primers and powder. Air pellets are cheap compared to primers and powder. I can stay sharp with air rifles and pistols without breaking the bank or allowing the 'scalper" to get rich. my .02 anyway, james
    James...exactomondo.

    I have enough primers and powder to last a lifetime IF I do not waste them plinking. I sold primers and powder last year to buy some decent air guns. Guns that will provide years of trigger time for next to nothing.

    All this hand wringing about costs makes little sense to me. Unless someone is a competitive shooter, do they really need to shoot thousands of rounds a year at paper and steel with CF rounds?

    If magazine dumps are what people want, I do not feel empathy for them. In fact, getting them out of shooting is a good thing.
    Don Verna


  6. #26
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Eureka MT
    Posts
    2,228
    I have never shot a lot but have been setting aside powder, primers, lead for over 40 years. I now have enough components to shoot as much as I want for the rest of my days. Even at that I recently bought a 22 cal PCP and around 10/15 thousand pellets. At this point I don't care what happens to the price of components as I probably won't be buying any more. Other than pellets I haven't bought much of any ammo or components in the last 2 years. It has always made me wonder why few people save up for hard times. Has no one heard of the great depression or do they think it can't happen again? I thinks a lot of folks are about to learn a very hard lesson.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    7,346
    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    I have never shot a lot but have been setting aside powder, primers, lead for over 40 years. I now have enough components to shoot as much as I want for the rest of my days. Even at that I recently bought a 22 cal PCP and around 10/15 thousand pellets. At this point I don't care what happens to the price of components as I probably won't be buying any more. Other than pellets I haven't bought much of any ammo or components in the last 2 years. It has always made me wonder why few people save up for hard times. Has no one heard of the great depression or do they think it can't happen again? I thinks a lot of folks are about to learn a very hard lesson.
    Wise words. My son and his wife are in their mid-late 30's and have no idea how bad things could get. They bought a $425k house two months ago and think they made a smart move. I am not so sure. Not my problem as no grandkids yet.
    Don Verna


  8. #28
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    East of KCMO
    Posts
    1,344
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Wise words. My son and his wife are in their mid-late 30's and have no idea how bad things could get. They bought a $425k house two months ago and think they made a smart move. I am not so sure. Not my problem as no grandkids yet.
    Home prices are currently outrageous nationwide. Out of curiosity I looked at home prices in the neighborhood where I bought my first house 30 years ago and prices are up 400%. That's in a part of town where I wouldn't want to live which was why I sold the house back then. A $45K house built in the mid 1960s is now a $180K house.

    I certainly don't see how it can possibly be worth more than half that price.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dead center of Alabama
    Posts
    1,819
    "something as simple as a lack of nitrocellulose keeping them from meeting the powder demand." You might have pulled that one out of thin air but after I called Shooters World Powders, that is exactly what they told me. I was inquiring about Buffalo Rifle and they said the lack of notrocellulose was the reason they could not make any. I have seen a few Lbs of it since then but not much. As far as primers, what is the status on the new manufacturing company in Tx?
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    3,459
    Long story short. This level of inflation is due to a weird series of events that has changed the world and country markets. It probably will slow a bit, but, not go back to pre-covid levels.

    The current inflation trend started a while ago as companies started pulling out of China. They were tired of the Chinese taking Intellectual Property from them. Then the previous administration began a series of trade policies with China (and others) that caused prices to increase. Yes, the purpose was to increase US production, but, that production is a lot more expensive. Then COVID and the huge influx of government hand out money. At the same time production and supply were hurt drastically due to labor problems and quarantines. More price increases as demand surged past supply of most commodities.

    COVID also caused a massive change in the work structure. Large numbers of jobs became remote. That meant a lot of folks could move from the expensive cities into rural areas. Housing prices in smaller towns started to go up. Then the lumber prices spiked and made it worse. Not enough construction crews meant higher prices.

    Current administration has done nothing to help any of this. Don't know if they don't care or if no one knows how to change it. The Fed could increase lending rates, but, that might lead to worse effects. And, actions taken in other parts of the world are having a large effect as well.

    China's issues with COVID variants is causing manufacturing problems as well. They have shut down factories or gone to much smaller production rates. Just look at what one little item did to the world economy, computer processing chips. The automotive industry has been crippled. Yes, this mfg could be moved to other countries, but, it takes time and prices will probably go up due to higher labor rates.

    Ammunition prices? Just not important enough for anyone to try to control it.

  11. #31
    I went in my usual store to purchase components looking for 2400 and some primers. They had 2 types of powder at 60$ a pound and primers were 12$ a sleeve. Don't believe I'll be going back.

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    8,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Stopsign32v View Post
    Itís been what, 2 years now? I havenít seen stocked powder and primers in 2 years. Does anyone know anything? Are brighter days coming?
    Depends on the next mid term elections ... then in 2 years the next Presidential election .
    Things will either get better ... or get worse .
    Think about who you vote for ... it may be an important election for America .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
    Eddie Southgate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Southern Middle Tennessee/ Hillsboro Alabama
    Posts
    922
    It will get better if and when the President, Congress , and Senate are not controlled by the kind of morons that control it now. This happens every time they take over, nothing new . This is however the worst it's been ,but this bunch is the worst we have ever been forced to deal with so that should not be a surprise to anyone. Delete away !


    PS: Who was in office the last time that gas got so high you couldn't afford it ? Bush gas prices $1-$2 range , Osama $4-$5 range and higher, Trump $2-$3 range , prices of everything else follows. Sniff was in office for only a very short time before gas prices started to climb. For the record , I am not a Trump fan but I will vote for him again if forced to , and we will lose again most likely.
    Last edited by Eddie Southgate; 07-25-2022 at 02:08 PM.
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  14. #34
    Boolit Master

    Rattlesnake Charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
    Posts
    1,319
    Brownell's has been sending e-mails that they have primers every now and then. 2K max as $85/m. I bought a can of Ramshot Enforcer powder at Bass Pro in Colorado Springs a couple months back. They had like a dozen cans on the shelf, limit of one. Another Ramshot powder too, but I cannot remember what flavor. Seeing lots of loaded ammo on shelves, so I think we may see powder and primers picking up before the snow flies.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    126
    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    Long story short. This level of inflation is due to a weird series of events that has changed the world and country markets. It probably will slow a bit, but, not go back to pre-covid levels.

    The current inflation trend started a while ago as companies started pulling out of China. They were tired of the Chinese taking Intellectual Property from them. Then the previous administration began a series of trade policies with China (and others) that caused prices to increase. Yes, the purpose was to increase US production, but, that production is a lot more expensive. Then COVID and the huge influx of government hand out money. At the same time production and supply were hurt drastically due to labor problems and quarantines. More price increases as demand surged past supply of most commodities.

    COVID also caused a massive change in the work structure. Large numbers of jobs became remote. That meant a lot of folks could move from the expensive cities into rural areas. Housing prices in smaller towns started to go up. Then the lumber prices spiked and made it worse. Not enough construction crews meant higher prices.

    Current administration has done nothing to help any of this. Don't know if they don't care or if no one knows how to change it. The Fed could increase lending rates, but, that might lead to worse effects. And, actions taken in other parts of the world are having a large effect as well.

    China's issues with COVID variants is causing manufacturing problems as well. They have shut down factories or gone to much smaller production rates. Just look at what one little item did to the world economy, computer processing chips. The automotive industry has been crippled. Yes, this mfg could be moved to other countries, but, it takes time and prices will probably go up due to higher labor rates.

    Ammunition prices? Just not important enough for anyone to try to control it.
    Inflation:

    The Federal Reserve has printed money like toilet paper for a long time, but they went into overdrive when Biden was installed.

    BIDEN'S WAR ON ENERGY ... started day 1 in office.

    Double the price of transportation fuel and guess what gets more expensive? EVERYTHING!

    This was deliberate.
    CARPE DIEM!.......

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Plymouth County, IA
    Posts
    689
    Nice to see some common sense in some posts here. One thing about the high prices of components...if they were priced at $40/thousand or per pound of powder now, those that need them would likely not be able to find any before the hoarders and resellers grabbed them and were reselling for double/triple that. But it still sounds like many people are buying whatever/whenever they can find at these prices, that will keep this going and going. And whoever thinks we need another primer manufacturing plant....maybe they can finance if and then close down in a few years when the demand is gone again. If you enjoy this HOBBY, you should have had the supplies to do it before this mess started. Maybe some will need new hobbies if they don't like where things are currently. Prices will not go back to where they were and why would anyone expect them to? They will come down... after the orders for loaded ammo are satisfied and the remaining handloaders have 2 lifetimes supply of everything they need.
    Take a kid to the range, you'll both be glad you did.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master beezapilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Central Fla
    Posts
    570
    Vista Outdoor owns most all of the companies that members on this forum use on a regular basis. On Jan 3, 2020 Vista was trading for about $7 a share, peaking out around Nov 2021 at $45 a share, currently at about $29. I think that they make more per primer selling finished ammo than in bulk to a guy who rolls their own. Ammo is on the shelves in increasing amounts- and profits are starting to drop a bit, as soon as the shelves are full of ammo, the components will start to arrive. Powder is showing up in some places, but scalpers know that it is not as easy to sell powder as primers- a more universal component, not to mention smaller and easier to transport. The factories are cranking out product on a profit driven priority, with increasing labor and materials and shipping cost, they need to make money to stay in business. If your LGS is gouging you, that is not the industries problem but a local one. If your LGS is moving less product he has to charge more to keep the lights on.
    The essence of education is self reliance- T.H. White.

    Currently seeking wood carving tools, wood planes, froes, scorps, spokeshaves... etc....

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    kalif.
    Posts
    6,780
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    James...exactomondo.

    I have enough primers and powder to last a lifetime IF I do not waste them plinking. I sold primers and powder last year to buy some decent air guns. Guns that will provide years of trigger time for next to nothing.

    All this hand wringing about costs makes little sense to me. Unless someone is a competitive shooter, do they really need to shoot thousands of rounds a year at paper and steel with CF rounds?

    If magazine dumps are what people want, I do not feel empathy for them. In fact, getting them out of shooting is a good thing.
    I shoot idpa & I am as instructor & still also take a class now & then. 8000rds a year of cf ammo isnt very much. You run thru your primer supply quickly.
    Ammo is coming back where prices are almost at prepandemic for common 9mm & 223. The issue is we dont make the primary components for powder & primers. That is almost entirely outsourced to other countries. Fix that, not likely, then we fix the primer/powder problem.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  19. #39
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    2,249
    Does anyone think that the President, the Senate and the Congress really cares about the price or availability of powder, primers, bullets,etc. Just like what they did to the petroleum industry, what’s happening with shooting supplies brings joy to their hearts. As long as their body guards have bullets and guns they could care less about the unwashed masses. Not saying they did this on purpose, but they definitely are thrilled it happened.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    Depends on the next mid term elections ... then in 2 years the next Presidential election .
    Things will either get better ... or get worse .
    Think about who you vote for ... it may be an important election for America .
    Gary
    I can't understand why you think voting would matter. Trump banned bump stocks, Reagan supported gun bans and so did Bush. So far Biden hasn't done much except supposedly banning Russian ammo. I think it's very foolish to think any of these worthless power seeking idiots are on your side. The NRA hasn't put up much of a fight either. I guess they don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check