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Thread: Remington 38 Special +P 158 gr LHP “FBI Load” -Chronograph Data

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    Boolit Buddy Hi-Speed's Avatar
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    Remington 38 Special +P 158 gr LHP “FBI Load” -Chronograph Data

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    Last edited by Hi-Speed; 08-08-2022 at 07:24 PM.

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    Thanks a bunch! This is useful data for those of us Dinosaurs still clinging to our 38's.
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    Boolit Buddy Hi-Speed's Avatar
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    Remember, dinosaurs once ruled the earth. My pleasure to share the data.

    …now I’m trying to duplicate the load with Accurate #5 using Speer and Handloader data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Speed View Post
    I had tested Remington “FBI Load” few weeks back but my notes indicated only four shots over my friend’s chronograph, not a good mathematical sampling. I purchased a new chronograph from MidwayUSA with a free shipping coupon…I don’t want to be beholden to someone’s else’s equipment I suppose. I’m spending more time with more shots over my chronograph, at least ten, to get meaningful data. I decided to give the Remington load a fair shake…here are chronograph data taken yesterday:

    Cartridge: Remington 38 Special +P 158 gr LHP (new, I believe 2018 or 2019 manufacture)
    Firearm: Ruger 4 5/8 inch 357 NM Blackhawk
    Shot#/MV:
    1. 903 fps
    2. 898 fps
    3. 928 fps
    4. 939 fps
    5. 951 fps
    6. 951 fps
    7. 900 fps
    8. 927 fps
    9. 933 fps
    10. 925 fps

    Hi - 951 fps
    Lo - 898 fps
    Avg - 925 fps
    ES - 53
    SD - 18
    Dallas P.D. used that load for well over 30 years and the round never ever failed to stop....that is what I carry in my 2-1/2" model 66!
    When guns are outlawed only criminals and the government will have them and at that time I will see very little difference in either!

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    Boolit Master gc45's Avatar
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    thanks for posting. I was shooting my 38s a lot until small PP disappeared..

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    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Velocity checks Colt Detective Special 3-inch with 0.008" barrel-cylinder gap:

    Winchester 158 LHP +P X38SPD
    879 fps, 18 Sd, 43 ES

    Winchester Ranger 130 JHP +P R38B
    965 fps, 21Sd, 57 ES

    Winchester 110- gr. JHP +P+Q4070 WCC86
    1046 fps. 21Sd, 59 ES

    Remington 158 LHP+P R38S12
    906 fps, 14Sd, 40 ES

    All of these expanded well in water jugs and penetrated through the third gallon water jug at ten yards, being caught in the 4th. All are good performing loads with "street cred."

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Outpost75; 07-24-2022 at 06:05 PM.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    That's +p load already? I have load with same weight cast bullet going 975fps with a little bit of titegroup. It shoots well and I thought it was a light load. Perhaps I should dial it back a little.

    -TL

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    Anyone know a powder and charge they have used with good results that duplicates the "FBI" loads? I'm very interested as I have a Target to Masterpiece and Ruger that will handle this stuff.
    Last edited by jonp; 07-25-2022 at 08:33 AM.
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    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    Anyone know the powder used for the "FBI" loads? I know commercial doesn't post it but maybe someone has an idea. I'm very interested as I have a Target Masterpiece and Ruger that will handle this stuff.
    Powders used in the factory ammo are noncanister, but you can approximate their payload and velocity closely using 5.5 grains of Power Pistol or AutoComp.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 07-24-2022 at 10:23 PM.
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    The original "FBI +P load was Winchester. I still have some we used back in the mid 70's to early 80's in our M15 S&Ws. It runs 975 fps out of my 4" M15 and right at 1000 fps out of my 6" Ruger Security Six. The psi as measured on my Contender test barrel via an Oehler M43 PBL runs 17,900. I duplicate that load with a 30-1 cast 358156HP over 5.5 gr Unique in W-W cases with WSPs.
    Larry Gibson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    The original "FBI +P load was Winchester. I still have some we used back in the mid 70's to early 80's in our M15 S&Ws. It runs 975 fps out of my 4" M15 and right at 1000 fps out of my 6" Ruger Security Six. The psi as measured on my Contender test barrel via an Oehler M43 PBL runs 17,900. I duplicate that load with a 30-1 cast 358156HP over 5.5 gr Unique in W-W cases with WSPs.
    Hi Larry, I think I remember you having a post about exploring fbi loads using different powders such a red dot, HS6/WIN540.

    Would you mind discussing this if that was your research please?

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Powders used in the factory ammo are noncanister, but you can approximate their payload and velocity closely using 5.5 grains of Power Pistol or AutoComp.
    That was actually what I meant. What powders and charge would equal it. Power Pistol I have, no Autocomp. Edited my post
    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by COUSIN DANIEL View Post
    Hi Larry, I think I remember you having a post about exploring fbi loads using different powders such a red dot, HS6/WIN540.

    Would you mind discussing this if that was your research please?
    I don't think that was me. I have not tested HS6 or WIN540 with 150/158 gr LSWCs replicating the "FBI" load. With Red Dot under a hard cast 158 commercial bullet 3.8 gr will be at the SAAMI MAP for +P but will not give the same velocity as factory "FBI" loads. While I have posted several results using other powders in the 38 SPL they have been for developing/testing 38/44 loads which are well into the +P+ and 357 Magnum psi range. A discussion here wouldn't be in accordance with the OP's topic.
    Larry Gibson

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    Boolit Master
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    Larry: What alloy would you recommend for a carry load? GF

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    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I'm not Larry, but 1 to 30 tin-lead from Roto Metals works very well in plain-based revolver loads to 1000 fps and in cowboy rifles like .44-40 to 1300 and expands wonderfully with excellent weight retention. With GC bullets will stand full .357 and .44 Magnum revolver velocity and fine to 1800 fps in a rifle. Success is lube dependent. I prefer a soft lube and use 50-50 olive oil and beeswax for subsonic, and Alox-beeswax for the full snort stuff.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 07-25-2022 at 02:29 PM.
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    That 5.5 grs Power Pistol load and a 158 gr LSWCHP bullet would be a good FBI duplicate load based on chronographing 5.6 grs Power Pistol/158 gr lead bullet; which obtained 949 fps from 4 5/8 inch Ruger BH. 5.5 grs would settle right in there…

  17. #17
    Boolit Master gc45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Speed View Post
    That 5.5 grs Power Pistol load and a 158 gr LSWCHP bullet would be a good FBI duplicate load based on chronographing 5.6 grs Power Pistol/158 gr lead bullet; which obtained 949 fps from 4 5/8 inch Ruger BH. 5.5 grs would settle right in there…
    Is this load a bit much for the steel J-frames?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Fox View Post
    Larry: What alloy would you recommend for a carry load? GF
    Let me just say what I use for a 38 SPL +P "carry load". I've no qualms using it in a Charter Arms 4", my S&W M15 w/5" or my M19 S&W and Ruger Security Six 357 magnums. I also used it in a S&W M36 Chief's SPL back when I had one.

    The 358156 cast of 30-1 alloy GC'd with Hornadys, sized at .358 and lubed with a soft NRA 50/50 lube.
    Winchester cases
    Winchester WSP primers
    5.5 gr Alliant Unique
    Bullets HP'ed to 3/16" deep with Forster HP tool then further opened to a wide mouth HP with a 1/8" counter sink bit.
    Larry Gibson

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    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc45 View Post
    Is this load a bit much for the steel J-frames?
    Ok for occasional use, but not as a steady diet in high volume training quantities. Velocity will be about 100 fps less in a 1-7/8" snub, depending upon barrel-cylinder gap. Likely more if gap exceeds 0.008", as S&W now considers up to 0.010 within specs, which was considered a Major category defect in my day.
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I use 4.5 gr WW231 under a 158 gr lead SWC in my J-frame S&W. It's pretty snappy to shoot but purpose is self defense - I don't plink with a hammerless snubby.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check