High Standard HD Military frame battering???

[cuzinbruce]

Hi,
The issue I am concerned about is some battering of the frame by the face of the slide. Only on the left side. Gun is a HD Military, serial 255xxx so 1947 production. Purchased some years ago. Near mint condition. After I first fired it, I noticed some battering on the left side where the face of the slide meets the frame. I did not remember this from before I purchased the gun, but I can't say for sure. I had only fired a couple boxes of standard velocity. Thinking this was there before and might be due to someone using high velocity ammo, I purchased and installed a new Wolff recoil spring. The new spring, however, seemed like it was about the same tension as the one being replaced. I had difficulty removing the recoil spring stop from the face of the slide, had to push it in and use abrasive paper on the shank of a drill bit to get it out. I am not sure how much I fired the gun after this. I couldn't figure out why it was battering the frame so I put it aside for some years. Now, I would like to shoot the gun but would like to correct the problem if possible. Since the issue is only on the left side, I tried feeler gages. On the left, there is contact and I can't get a gage between the surfaces. On the right, I can get a .013" gage between the frame and slide at the top. At the bottom, only a .007" gage. Also the extractor is on the left and may be a factor too. The face of the rear frame seems square to the sides of the frame. Checking with a couple small machinist's squares. The face of the slide is not square to the sides of the slide. I can feel a little rocking moving the squares. I think the issue is the face of the slide not being square to the sides of the slide and only hitting on one side. Now I am wondering what to do about it? Has anyone else ever had this problem? Any one else have experience with HD Military? Hard to take pictures this small but this one shows what is happening. Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated. Am I missing anything?
Thanks,
Bruce

[contender1]

I have had a few HD's myself. I can't recall having this issue. However,,,,,,,,

You may have already isolated the issue in bolt to frame fit not being square or true. I GOOD gunsmith/machinist can square up a surfaces with each other. This may fix the issue.

[todd9.3x57]

my dad had one (now its mine) and i'm trying to think what the gunsmith did. i know it could not chamber a round. i'm thinking it was the magazine that needed repaired. but i'm not sure, this was years ago.

[pietro]

.

I would suggest that you closely inspect the grip frame at the top edge of the magazine well, with the slide held back for easy viewing, for the most common issues with HS's - frame cracking there.

If the frame is cracked there, it's possibly why the bolt face appears to be off square - since only a few thousandths off square would result in that damage to the rear side of the barrel.

The only other reason I know about off square is that the bolt may have been replaced w/o fitting prior to your purchase, all those years ago.

.

[Tokarev]

A heavy replacement mainspring is known to cause frame battering. What is the poundage of the spring that you had installed?

[cuzinbruce]

The frame is fine, no cracking. The face of the slide not being square to the sides is based on machinist's squares on the slide only. Replacement spring was a Wolff IIRC. No way to measure it accurately but strength and dimensions seemed to duplicate the original. My concerns about trying to change the face of the slide are several. Any material removed from the face of the slide could affect headspace, the extractor, and firing pin protrusion. These might be minor or major concerns, not sure at this point. My options are try shooting it the way it is, try to fix it, try to find another slide, or ???

[M-Tecs]

The frame issue is only on the models with removable barrels Model's 102 thru Model 107's from CT. From what I see in the pics that was caused by something other than firing.

Currently I own 3 HD's. One was dads. He shot it a lot but I know I have put at least 50,000 thru it and they were all high velocity.

https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/thr...oblems.115272/

Yes, beginning with the large pushbutton 102 design series and later, the frames have a history of cracking. Keeping a fresh recoil spring in the gun will help as will using standard velocity ammunition. The spring will actually wear and its wire diameter will thus be reduced in effective diameter resulting in a reduction in force. It is suggested that when acquireing one of these that the new owner replace the spring with a new one and then change it every 12,000 to 15,000 rounds.

THe other frames that have a history of cracking are the letter series with the type I-A or I-B take down. The crack on these forms at the left rear of the frame between the slot for the pin that actuates the slide stop for takedown and the top of the frame.

The Model H-D Military does hot have a history of frame cracks but I do not recommend High Velocity ammunition for it. The part that fails is the stop lug at the thin section where the take down lever shaft passes through it.

[M-Tecs]

my dad had one (now its mine) and i'm trying to think what the gunsmith did. i know it could not chamber a round. i'm thinking it was the magazine that needed repaired. but i'm not sure, this was years ago.

Mag lips could have been an issue or chamber peening from dryfiring.

[jmstr]

For awhile, replacement HD recoil springs were supposed to be trimmed to the proper length. If a previous owner swapped springs and didn't trim, it could lead to battering.

I have a few high standards. One of them has this type of 'mushrooming' on the face of the slide, and it is a 104, IIRC.


On the HD military, you need to also check to see that the recoil lug is truly sticking up at 90 degrees. In the two I've had, the lug was actually more like 93-96 degrees, with it angled toward the rear. This is due to battering of the inside of the frame by the lug, allowing the lug to overrotate to the rear.
When this happens, it can lead to other issues, as the recoil spring may not close the slide 100% firmly after each shot, as the slide pushes off the top tip of the lug, which is now .002+ farther away from the chamber face than it was designed to be.

I've had this microwelded up on one, with the welding inside the frame [and I dressed it flat/even after] and I've had gunsmiths weld up reinforcement material on the top of the frame to push the lug forward to that 90 degree angle on the other one.

After doing this, they quit having irregular ignition.

However, none of this addressed the mushrooming of the slide edges.

Good luck!

[cuzinbruce]

The mushrooming is only on one side of the frame. That is what gave me the inspiration to check it with a little machinist's square. With the gun closed, there is no gap on the left side. On the right, I can get a feeler gage between the frame and the face of the slide, .013" at the top and .007" at the bottom. Possible there could be interference with the extractor and the frame. I should take off the extractor and put the gun back together to check that. But I can feel the face of the slide is not square when I check with a machinist's square. Other guns I checked, a Woodsman and a Sport King, are dead square. It would be interesting to know if your 104 is similar. Amazing to think that High Standards quality control could have been that lacking.