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Thread: Montana Sharp vs Itialian Sharp

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Montana Sharp vs Itialian Sharp

    I have decided that I NEED a single shot sharps in case I ever get a chance to shoot a bison. Not going to shoot at 1000yds. Probably 200 yds max at the range. Probably 45/70 calibre. Question is do I want a Montana gun or an Italian gun? Also feel free to comment on the calibre. I am almost 80 years old so I don't want to/can't order a gun that is going to take several years to deliver. Local gun shops have not been very encouraging. Any and all comments/opinions will be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Not sure on Shiloh leade time. The C Sharps I have ordered were 8 - 10 weeks. CPA and DZ were about the same.

    Then theres Bill Goodman who has some new Shilohs on hand usually but he charges a premium for the no wait service

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    You should maybe start with the Montana guys and see what they on hand. You might be pleaseantly surprised. Then check GunBroker. They always have a variety. The Italian guns have a very good reputation. I am not yet 65 and I'm not sure I'd want to hang on to a 45 what ever at full power in a match, like 60-80 rounds. 5 or 6 would be fine. I shoot a 38-55 have for many years, have several of them. They will kill deer or steel rams and a lot nicer to the shoulder. Stay away from weirdo calibers. You want to shoot, not hunt brass etc.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    For 200-yds maximum, the Pedersoli would be fine as a shooter. .45-70 would be Thee caliber to start with; easiest to load for (black or smokeless) and components and tools most easily available. I have a Cabela’s Target Model Pedersoli Sharps that shoots very well. I was Rangemastering at the Quigley last month and one of the shooters had a Pedersoli Sharps. He got 6 or 7 hits on the Diamond (over 400 yds) using the Lawrence ladder-and-blade barrel sights. I’m still impressed.

    If you want an heirloom or something special, a Shiloh or C. Sharps would more than fill the bill. When I was at the Shiloh plant last month, they estimated 24 months for a completed rifle; not outrageous for what is essentially a custom build, but not immediate gratification, either. As mentioned, used ones come up often. Also, Shiloh sometimes makes “extra” rifles, with a set of features picked in advance in-house, rather than by the customer, which come out in the course of production and are available “off the rack.” They didn’t have any when I was there, but I have a #1 that I bought from them as a production spec sheet in their file cabinet when I put the money down. It took six months to get. Sort of like Goodman’s deal, only without the middle man.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I'm highly prejudiced in favor of the Shiloh's, having owned 3 and still owning two. However, for what you're talking about I imagine the Pedersoli would be fine. 45-70 is never a wrong choice though that's the one Shiloh I sold. The ones I kept are a 45-90 and a 4-70 SS.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy eastbank's Avatar
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    i have the target pedersoli 1874 sharps with good sights on it in 45-70 and it shoots very well, i bought mine for 800.00 years ago and think its a personal choice to what you buy, the usa made sharps are super rifles. i have left men who are much better shots than i, for am close to 79 and its hard for me to hold the heavy rifles in the offhand matches and they compete very well against the other 74 sharps rifle makers. i don,t try to make a magnum out of it and only shoot cast bullet out of it at modest speeds.

  7. #7
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    Tazman1602's Avatar
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    IMHO — I have always wanted a Shiloh sharps ever since I had one come through my shop YEARS ago, when my wife opened the case she hollered at me to “holy ***t Art you have to see this” this being said, I did not want to have to wait years at my age for one.

    I picked up a very nice Uberti Sharps and recently scored an older Pedersoli rolling block and both shoot better than my old eyes. The Uberti, with its set triggers and vernier sights……well, I have visions of Crazy Cora throwing herself at me.

    The other good thing about the Italian clones is that IF I had a C. Sharps or Shiloh, I’d probably spend more time polishing and drooling than I would shooting it….

    Art
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I don’t have one negative thing to say about Sharps produced in this country. They truly are heirloom guns and I’ve had a number of custom built guns in my lifetime (no Sharps though). Saying that, I’ve owned at least six Pedersoli Sharps rifles all in 45-70. Each one of them were absolutely superb shooting rifles. With Remington 405g JSP bullets they’d shoot 1moa with a good set of sights (MVA) when I was having a good day. Their barrels and triggers are second to none. If you don’t have two years to wait, just get a Pedersoli.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master



    Tazman1602's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NSB View Post
    I don’t have one negative thing to say about Sharps produced in this country. They truly are heirloom guns and I’ve had a number of custom built guns in my lifetime (no Sharps though). Saying that, I’ve owned at least six Pedersoli Sharps rifles all in 45-70. Each one of them were absolutely superb shooting rifles. With Remington 405g JSP bullets they’d shoot 1moa with a good set of sights (MVA) when I was having a good day. Their barrels and triggers are second to none. If you don’t have two years to wait, just get a Pedersoli.
    I could not agree more with that. For whatever reason, the 405gr slugs whether they are jacketed or cast shoot like a dream out of any 45-70 I’ve got and are very easy to work up a load for, in my case almost always 4198 although lately I’m playing with 5744. The Pedersoli/Uberti rifles have been second to none for me, but I still wish I had the cash and time to wait for one of the C. Sharps or Shiloh Sharps with all the “pretties”….they are some real beauties….

    Art
    ”Only accurate rifles are interesting”
    ——Townsend Whelen


    In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act
    —- George Orwell

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy

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    I have a C Sharps 1874 Business Rifle in 45-70 with round barrel, and a Pedersoli / Lyman "1878". Both are fairly light as Sharps go. A current Pedersoli model that would fit your bill is the Overbaugh model; it's 2 lb lighter than an M1 Rifle:

    https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/...-long-range-30

    The C Sharps and Pedersoli / Lyman are about equally accurate with my pet load of 14 gr of Unique under a 400 - 405 gr cast boolit. Rainbow trajectory, but they group and are VERY easy on the shoulder.

    I was lucky and got the C Sharps used locally off a "craigslist" like trader site for $1100, and the P/L "1878" (a made-up Sharps date for marketing, it's an 1874 action) was $900 at a gun show. I love to shoot them, and be prepared for the attention they will draw at the range. I guess I prefer the "Charps" as I call it, b/c it is lighter than the P/L, and a couple inches shorter and better balanced. I would not say it shoots better.

    Don't be scared of a Pedersoli, but stay away from any "IAB" ("It's Always Broken") made Sharps.

    Noah

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    About a year ago I made the jump- a Shiloh 1874. Beautiful rifle- 26" barrel, handles and shoots excellent. I put it in a display case on the wall- it has been to the range 3x with me, bought a new "Ruglin" trapper and haven't looked back. The single shot is great to look at, but if I am going places where the rifle may get bumped/dinged or otherwise, my trapper is the go-to. The 45-70 is an excellent choice- cast for it, factory or bp- a person really can't go wrong.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    Don’t overlook Shiloh’s 1877 #2 , my next one, a.k.a the J.P.Lower facsimile , my fifth Shiloh will Oder when #4 goes into production a 1874 Military Carbine 26” round barrel, pack harden with patch box chambered for the mighty 40-50 SBN. I have waited going on six years for #3 a 1877 #1 45-70 32” round barrel , went into production last August so it’s due any day. $250.00 down, anywhere from 18 mos. to six years makes it easy to pay off before their done in $250.00 increments.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Montana Sharps manufacturers have 18 month to 2 year lead time. Lady in Texas that sells Italian guns had nothing. Rifles were on order from Italy but not sure when they would arrive. Found a Lyman Model of 1878 Sharps at t local gun store. New in the box. Manual etc is dated 2017-2018. Rear sights had not been installed. Owner said any modern ammo. Implied I could shoot Ruger no.1 loads. Lyman manual said trapdoor loads. Trapdoor loads killed a whole bunch of Bison so that is probably what I will shoot in it. Don't like real heavy recoil. Thank you every one for your advice. Will probably get it to the range in a couple of weeks.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckiller View Post
    Montana Sharps manufacturers have 18 month to 2 year lead time. Lady in Texas that sells Italian guns had nothing. Rifles were on order from Italy but not sure when they would arrive. Found a Lyman Model of 1878 Sharps at t local gun store. New in the box. Manual etc is dated 2017-2018. Rear sights had not been installed. Owner said any modern ammo. Implied I could shoot Ruger no.1 loads. Lyman manual said trapdoor loads. Trapdoor loads killed a whole bunch of Bison so that is probably what I will shoot in it. Don't like real heavy recoil. Thank you every one for your advice. Will probably get it to the range in a couple of weeks.
    Don’t forget about Remington rolling blocks - also great shooters and ultra simple action.

    I’ve also owned a Shiloh Sharps in 45-70 - all are good rifles.
    Last edited by HWooldridge; 07-22-2022 at 06:09 PM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
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    I ordered a perdersoli sharps 45-90 from Dixie gun works and got it right away i think they are still in stock. I also ordered a 45-110 via Bill goodman. if you want a collectible heirloom that you can be proud of then that's a shiloh. Bill has some on hand or about to be finished listed on his website but if you order a custom build it will also take less time because he constantly puts orders in ahead of time and you essentially buy a place ahead in line. Mine will take a bit more time because of certain things i asked for but it will still be under a year.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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