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Thread: Are we chosen to be Christians?

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Are we chosen to be Christians?

    God is supposed to know us before we are born. He has chosen some to become Christians. Others have not been chosen by Him. I am struggling with the concept even though it makes sense.

    If born into a Muslim family a person will almost certainly become a Muslim. Same for Jews, Hindus etc etc. So it makes sense.

    When He has chosen us to be born into a Christian family, He has increased our chances of salvation. Our free will may lead us elsewhere but that will be rare. He has stacked the deck in our favor.

    What about the many more He has not chosen. Does God not love them as much or at all? Is He depending on their "free will" to choose Christ but starts them with the deck stacked against them?

    I hear stories of children accepting Christ at a very young age and question how much of that is peer pressure. Is the Holy Ghost working in some of them, but not others? It seems ludicrous to celebrate a 5 year old accepting Jesus when we do not trust them to decide what to have for breakfast. Do 5 year old Muslims etc etc accept Christ?...I think not.

    How much of our faith is pre-destined and how much is free will? It seems to me most of it is pre-destined, but I see both examples in the Bible.

    I was born in a family of atheists and came to Christ late in life. God hit me with a 2x4 a few times. I do not know why He has saved me, but He has. I wonder about those He has not chosen to be saved. Why?
    Don Verna


  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    You still have free will - but God already knows which path you will undertake - and he knows your heart. As Matthew 7 states, "Judge not, lest ye be judged".

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    In my opinion:

    God does not "choose" who gets saved. He wants everyone to exercise their free will and choose to accept his gift of forgiveness.

    There are many that are less exposed to his Word, and there are may that have access to the Gospel, but fail to heed the message. This is the mostly the consequences of choices by Christians to not be good images of Him and our failings in spreading the good news.

  4. #4
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    Jer 1:5
    Jn 6:44
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    DG

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Everyone know John 3:16, but I wish we learned verse 17 first: “For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.” And clearly stated in 16 “WHOEVER believes in Him should not perish…” And Romans 10:13-15

    …13 “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news. Finally, it is up to each of us to fulfill the great commission in Matthew 28 18-20 “ Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
    Not a complete answer but taps down a few of the nails that were sticking up. Regarding the 5 year olds, I have to relate this from my own life. When 5 y/o grandaughter climbed into my lap on a visit with her Bible story book to ask me to read her a story, I thought aha, a teaching moment. So I asked her about the last story she read and she proceeded to expound the gospel as clearly and succinctly as any pastor or deacon extant. After 5 minutes or so she asked me why I was crying and all I could say that the Holy Spirit was in my lap and they were tears of joy! From the mouths of babes is praise perfected! She was baptized the following year. I cannot imagine why God Almighty gave her such an understanding of His word and work to such a young one, but I hang my hat on Isaiah 59, especially the last verse: 21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord. “My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips, on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants—from this time on and forever,” says the Lord.”
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    The default position of all mankind is lost. Those that hear the Gospel and respond with active faith will be saved. This is the Bible's position and teaching. There aren't any loopholes for those born Muslim or even for those who have never heard the Gospel. No one is saved by being a "good person" (or a being a nominal Christian). It may not seem fair, but those are the facts as presented in scripture.

    As far as God choosing who will be saved and who will be lost, Jesus said "Whosoever will..." Count me as an Arminian.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Did our creator know us before we came here? Yep.
    Who qualifies for a free pass, a quick trip through the water without having to prove themselves in this present Earth age?
    Well, I don't know. But I know Roe Vs. Wade surely punched the passes for a whole lot of them.

    And with that thought I'd like to toss another one out there.
    They came into this world at their appointed time. Did we?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Don, this is a great post. I’ve wondered the same thing many times. All I can ever tell myself is that God has a reason and it’s clear to him. He may have an answer that he hasn’t shared with us…..yet.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Cheer View Post
    Did our creator know us before we came here? Yep.
    Who qualifies for a free pass, a quick trip through the water without having to prove themselves in this present Earth age?
    Well, I don't know. But I know Roe Vs. Wade surely punched the passes for a whole lot of them.

    And with that thought I'd like to toss another one out there.
    They came into this world at their appointed time. Did we?
    Are you suggesting aborted babies automatically go to heaven? If so, why are we opposed to it? What percent of the population is saved, maybe 10%? If the aborted get a free pass maybe we should rethink our position.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy Newboy's Avatar
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    drvna

    I feel the same. God did the choosing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


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    Why? Mercy.
    If left to our own devices, what natural man would seek holiness?
    Micah 6:8
    He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

    "I don't have hobbies - I'm developing a robust post-apocalyptic skill set"
    I may be discharged and retired but I'm sure I did not renounce the oath that I solemnly swore!

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Good Cheer
    Did our creator know us before we came here? Yep.
    Who qualifies for a free pass, a quick trip through the water without having to prove themselves in this present Earth age?
    Well, I don't know. But I know Roe Vs. Wade surely punched the passes for a whole lot of them.

    And with that thought I'd like to toss another one out there.
    They came into this world at their appointed time. Did we?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Are you suggesting aborted babies automatically go to heaven? If so, why are we opposed to it? What percent of the population is saved, maybe 10%? If the aborted get a free pass maybe we should rethink our position.
    We all pass through the water. Well, except maybe those that headed for Mount Hermon. Aborted babies are going somewhere. Where can they be headed? What would determine their destination? Seeing as they have no other performance in this present Earth age all I can come up with is their prior performance as judged by our creator. Could they have already proved themselves as either accepted or rejected? Why not.
    Were they "the best of the best"? Maybe so.
    Or did some reject their Father (spiritual creator) and so their pass through the water was to be rejected by their mother (their physical creator)? Beats me Ickisrulz. It's just things to think about.

    As far as I've gotten on this is they're passing through the water and Roe Vs Wade surely created a mass transit system to get it done. But this I know for sure, historically our creator sometimes uses evil to accomplish His purposes. It doesn't mean He is evil. It means He turns evil to good and they get to condemn themselves.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I have had conversations with the Lord about Abortion. It was hard because every time we started talking he would get sooooo angry.

    Eventually I asked him why.

    He replied that he was in the business of collecting Souls and that when a child is aborted both the physical body and the soul attached to it are lost!

    There is a very short period after conception before a soul is attached. So for example the "Morning after pill" does no real harm.

    It took me and the Lord months to work out exactly why it is the way it is. And why certain things like Abortion are in his eyes so evil.

    In the end I changed my views. And it helped when it finally sunk in that all those unwanted pregnancy's were mostly due to women failing to take proper precautions.

    I was seriously pro choice for decades. At times I have even helped the local clinic (only one in North Dakota) with cleaning and security.

    I have heard the rantings of the religious right to lifer's and found little to agree with.

    But when the LORD GOD OF HOSTS thunders down from Heaven "This is WRONG, stop it" I listened.

    Remember that what one of the Trinity knows they ALL know. (Except the time of the last trump)

    Remember that we are in a battle for control of Earth. There are limits as to how much and how strongly both the Lord and Satan are allowed to influence things.

    I can prove NONE of the above. Except that those conversations did happen. And I would find it hard to prove that.

    I think that Jesus needs us to be soft, gentle and forgiving when dealing with other people. And able to turn into WARRIORS when confronted with the enemy.
    We do not have to attack, just STAND FAST in our faith.

    This is a very hard topic for me, and I do not like to present myself as some prophet or person who has inside information.
    But I was told I was needed here. And so putting personal feelings aside I have exposed my soul for all to see.

    I have not always been a good man. I wasted 40 years being the goat who would not be led. I wanted no shepherd, I chose my own path.
    And yet looking back over the years I can see again and again where the Lord sent others to help my in my troubles. So eventually I heard his call and came to believe.

    I also believe that each of us before we are sent down to take up this life are given an overview of how hard it will be. And if we do not think we are capable of
    fulfilling that life he will choose another. And we will have another chance at a later date. I also believe that memory is sealed away from us. We have to do it on our own.

    And this has turned into a strange conversation for which I am truly sorry.

    For those of you who took the time to read with an open mind, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
    I truly believe we need to get back to basics.

    Get right with the Lord.
    Get back to the land.
    Get back to thinking like our forefathers thought.


    May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you
    and give you His peace. Let all of the earth – all of His creation – worship and praise His name! Make His
    praise glorious!

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Thank you GhostHawk for letting us know.

  15. #15
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    God is supposed to know us before we are born. He has chosen some to become Christians. Others have not been chosen by Him. I am struggling with the concept even though it makes sense.

    If born into a Muslim family a person will almost certainly become a Muslim. Same for Jews, Hindus etc etc. So it makes sense.

    When He has chosen us to be born into a Christian family, He has increased our chances of salvation. Our free will may lead us elsewhere but that will be rare. He has stacked the deck in our favor.

    What about the many more He has not chosen. Does God not love them as much or at all? Is He depending on their "free will" to choose Christ but starts them with the deck stacked against them?

    I hear stories of children accepting Christ at a very young age and question how much of that is peer pressure. Is the Holy Ghost working in some of them, but not others? It seems ludicrous to celebrate a 5 year old accepting Jesus when we do not trust them to decide what to have for breakfast. Do 5 year old Muslims etc etc accept Christ?...I think not.

    How much of our faith is pre-destined and how much is free will? It seems to me most of it is pre-destined, but I see both examples in the Bible.

    I was born in a family of atheists and came to Christ late in life. God hit me with a 2x4 a few times. I do not know why He has saved me, but He has. I wonder about those He has not chosen to be saved. Why?
    I can't really answer your questions. I do think he knew us all before we were born in the flesh. This passage might help you some?


    Romans 9:6-13
    6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

    10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    like winning some genetic lottery. if you are born in Tibet odds are your going to be Buddhist

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    I have had conversations with the Lord about Abortion. It was hard because every time we started talking he would get sooooo angry.

    Eventually I asked him why.

    He replied that he was in the business of collecting Souls and that when a child is aborted both the physical body and the soul attached to it are lost!

    There is a very short period after conception before a soul is attached. So for example the "Morning after pill" does no real harm.

    It took me and the Lord months to work out exactly why it is the way it is. And why certain things like Abortion are in his eyes so evil.

    In the end I changed my views. And it helped when it finally sunk in that all those unwanted pregnancy's were mostly due to women failing to take proper precautions.

    I was seriously pro choice for decades. At times I have even helped the local clinic (only one in North Dakota) with cleaning and security.

    I have heard the rantings of the religious right to lifer's and found little to agree with.

    But when the LORD GOD OF HOSTS thunders down from Heaven "This is WRONG, stop it" I listened.

    Remember that what one of the Trinity knows they ALL know. (Except the time of the last trump)

    Remember that we are in a battle for control of Earth. There are limits as to how much and how strongly both the Lord and Satan are allowed to influence things.

    I can prove NONE of the above. Except that those conversations did happen. And I would find it hard to prove that.

    I think that Jesus needs us to be soft, gentle and forgiving when dealing with other people. And able to turn into WARRIORS when confronted with the enemy.
    We do not have to attack, just STAND FAST in our faith.

    This is a very hard topic for me, and I do not like to present myself as some prophet or person who has inside information.
    But I was told I was needed here. And so putting personal feelings aside I have exposed my soul for all to see.

    I have not always been a good man. I wasted 40 years being the goat who would not be led. I wanted no shepherd, I chose my own path.
    And yet looking back over the years I can see again and again where the Lord sent others to help my in my troubles. So eventually I heard his call and came to believe.

    I also believe that each of us before we are sent down to take up this life are given an overview of how hard it will be. And if we do not think we are capable of
    fulfilling that life he will choose another. And we will have another chance at a later date. I also believe that memory is sealed away from us. We have to do it on our own.

    And this has turned into a strange conversation for which I am truly sorry.

    For those of you who took the time to read with an open mind, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
    How does God speak to you, in an audible voice?

  18. #18
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Cheer View Post
    Originally Posted by Good Cheer
    Did our creator know us before we came here? Yep.
    Who qualifies for a free pass, a quick trip through the water without having to prove themselves in this present Earth age?
    Well, I don't know. But I know Roe Vs. Wade surely punched the passes for a whole lot of them.

    And with that thought I'd like to toss another one out there.
    They came into this world at their appointed time. Did we?




    We all pass through the water. Well, except maybe those that headed for Mount Hermon. Aborted babies are going somewhere. Where can they be headed? What would determine their destination? Seeing as they have no other performance in this present Earth age all I can come up with is their prior performance as judged by our creator. Could they have already proved themselves as either accepted or rejected? Why not.
    Were they "the best of the best"? Maybe so.
    Or did some reject their Father (spiritual creator) and so their pass through the water was to be rejected by their mother (their physical creator)? Beats me Ickisrulz. It's just things to think about.

    As far as I've gotten on this is they're passing through the water and Roe Vs Wade surely created a mass transit system to get it done. But this I know for sure, historically our creator sometimes uses evil to accomplish His purposes. It doesn't mean He is evil. It means He turns evil to good and they get to condemn themselves.
    We don't have information on the fate of the aborted because the Bible is essentially silent on the issue.

    We consider abortion wrong because it is ending a human life. I don't know that we can take it much further and be dogmatic about our inferences.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master
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    The vast majority of Christians hold their beliefs because they were born into Christian families. That is a "fact" that cannot be disputed or ignored. God chose them to be Christians. Why He did so is beyond my ability to understand, but it is a fact.

    There are those, and I am one, who become Christians though a process. They are Christians by choice and not by birth/heritage. BTW, I am not suggesting all people born into Christian homes accept Christ, many choose to reject Him. More n that later.

    The Lord enlists disciples to "spread the good news" for a reason. If a person is not born into a Christian home, they cannot know about Christ. They cannot be saved.

    What I continue to struggle with is why God has "stacked the deck" against most of humanity. 2000 years after Jesus showed the way, less than one third of the world believes in Christ. This trend continues downward; and global communication has not helped "spread the word". There are fewer Christians than in 1900, as a percentage. God is creating more and more souls that cannot and will not be saved...they are not chosen...they are forsaken.

    This has led to me ponder a bigger question. God has given us the tools to spread His Word and we are slipping back. Some professed "Christians" accept the murder of babies. Those that God has chosen are not "winning". Have we reached the tipping point? The Word is out there for all to see and is being rejected by more people. Has God had enough?

    What is wrong is now right. What is right is now wrong.

    When He sees "chosen people" rejecting Christ in increasing numbers, is the battle lost?

    Is it time for Jesus to return?
    Don Verna


  20. #20
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    The vast majority of Christians hold their beliefs because they were born into Christian families. That is a "fact" that cannot be disputed or ignored. God chose them to be Christians. Why He did so is beyond my ability to understand, but it is a fact.
    I would say their parents chose them to be "Christians", not God. God doesn't pick and choose who will be born to whom and under what circumstances. That falls on the parents.

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